Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-03-2008, 07:41 PM   #61  
Happy to be here
 
acl65pilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,546
Default

I personally would sign on to DOH if the top 2000 NWA pilots were bought off and taken off property in the next two years. That and scope was fixed.
So much for wishes.
acl65pilot is offline  
Old 04-03-2008, 08:25 PM   #62  
Gets Weekends Off
 
capncrunch's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,260
Default

I have heard that there are a number of guys holding off from retiring waiting to see if the merger produces some sort of payday and once they find out they will be gone.
capncrunch is offline  
Old 04-04-2008, 04:07 AM   #63  
Gets Weekends Off
 
slinky's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 7ER B
Posts: 144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by capncrunch View Post
I have heard that there are a number of guys holding off from retiring waiting to see if the merger produces some sort of payday and once they find out they will be gone.
That is cool and all, but until they either retire or have a contractual obligation to leave the property, they are on the books till 65 in my mind.
slinky is offline  
Old 04-04-2008, 04:17 AM   #64  
Happy to be here
 
acl65pilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,546
Default

Agreed. You can never predict someone's future career plans, and no contract should take that in to account.
acl65pilot is offline  
Old 04-04-2008, 04:39 AM   #65  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,896
Default

At this point I don't see the merger going through,
Anderson and the Management at DAL originally stated that they would not move ahead with the merger until the new, merged company had the support of its' pilots.

That being said, the only proposal that the Steenland and the NWA management have most recently proposed basically canned any pilot raises. The pilot raises were a there to help gather support and favor from the pilots in hopes to get them on board with the deal. Nothing about the deal has changed, and DAL managment wants to insure that the pilot group doesn't go to war with each other.

If this deal negotiation is a reflection on how the NWA management does business treats its' pilots, then I really trully do feel for the pilots at NWA. Unless the management at DAL suddenly has a change of heart and all of a sudden becomes indifferent about the well-being of it's pilot work force, I don't see the deal happening. That's my 2-cents at least.
DeadHead is offline  
Old 04-04-2008, 04:51 AM   #66  
Super Moderator
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 737
Posts: 5,216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by capncrunch View Post
I have heard that there are a number of guys holding off from retiring waiting to see if the merger produces some sort of payday and once they find out they will be gone.
Capn,
I agree but think they may stick around a little longer if they like what they see- which does seem doubtful considering the news these days. I am sure most would retire without a merger but a merger changes everything. Think about it - its just natural to see what would change. Guys tired of commuting long distances will have new base opportunities, possible pay raises, changes to the DC portion of retirement and a possible equity payout. I know that I would at least stick around to check it out. The "shotgun wedding" scenario may or may not come with the above changes and so maybe most retirements might be closer to 60 in that type of merger. You would be surprised how at how many senior widebody Captains live for the job. I saw some senior DAL Captains risk close to a million $ (and eventually lose a lot of it) to keep flying. They have been doing this for decades and their identity is tied to being an airline pilot first and foremost. And this wasn't even "premium widebody flying."
Scoop
Scoop is offline  
Old 04-04-2008, 05:04 AM   #67  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 1,671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
You would be surprised how at how many senior widebody Captains live for the job. I saw some senior DAL Captains risk close to a million $ (and eventually lose a lot of it) to keep flying. They have been doing this for decades and their identity is tied to being an airline pilot first and foremost. And this wasn't even "premium widebody flying."
Scoop
I'm not sure I agree that any senior pilot who stuck around did so because he ties his identity into flying airplanes. For many it was a decision that has proven worthwhile.

For starters, almost every pilot who had $1 million or more in a lump sum retired early...many of them were 58 or 59 anyway! But for every "chump" that you "can't believe" stuck around, there are quite a few more that I personally know who went early at 51, took $500,000 AT MOST, and now are kicking themselves over and over. They could be senior 767-400 or 777 captains, still making close to $200K a year, with better (though not great) medical benefits, decent DC plan, and with age 65 now the rule, could still be looking at 10 more years of flying ahead of them. For them, it was a bad decision. And for many of the senior guys who stuck around, I contend it was not just about tying up their identity into the airlines...it was a rational decision that MAY just have turned out to be a good one.

But hey, if we all had crystal balls, we would know how to bet at the roulette wheel and race track!
Herkflyr is offline  
Old 04-04-2008, 05:14 AM   #68  
Gets Weekends Off
 
nw320driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B747FO
Posts: 148
Default Holding Company

I see this deal being revised to one similar to Air France's and KLM's combination. They create a holding company and operate as separate carriers. The holding company will reap many of the benefits of a merger by coordinating routes, fares and financial operations. Under such a scenario, Delta and Northwest pilots would remain separate.

This way DS gets his payout and can leave to rape his next victim. RA will not have back off from his promise to the Delta employees. The HFs will be happy, because the deal gets pushed though without having to pay the pilots anything for a few more years. Just my thoughts....

I guess we will hear something from the DAL BOD in the next few days.
nw320driver is offline  
Old 04-04-2008, 05:16 AM   #69  
Happy to be here
 
acl65pilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,546
Default

Exactly, and every CA that I fly with is going to stay to 65. They do not want to but when you look at the economics of it, guess what it is stupid to leave when you are getting 14% in a DC plan.

The way that I see it, the NWA guys have been arguing their retirements form the wrong perspective. The have been doing so with out the merged company's PWA. Not SLI but the money side of it. They are correct in stating that most guys would not stay for 2K more a month, but is that the case?
If you are looking at a frozen DB plan, yes, but what you fail to consider is the improved work rules and DC plan that would have been a 14%. 14% of a 400's CA pay is a lot of dough for five year. A little public Math...
Assume 200 a hr for a 400 CA.
Year 1 200 + 7% initial raise= 214 per hr. 80 hrs credit a month(this is conservative) 17120 per month.
14% of this is 2396.8 per month for 28761.6 a year
Now add years 2-4 of the PWA

Year 2 222.56 per hr =17804.8 per mo
DC 29915.01 per year in the plan

Year 3 231.47 per hr for 18516.99 per mo
DC 31108.54 per year in to the plan

Year 4 240.73 per hr= 19258.31 per mo
DC 32353.95 per year in the plan

Now add all of that extra money together on top of the huge raise that they get from the new PWA. What do you get
Over 122K in their DC plan on top of the raise.
Simply enough that is enough to put a kid through school, or add a lot to your frozen DB. I would do it and so would they.

Last edited by acl65pilot; 04-04-2008 at 05:23 AM.
acl65pilot is offline  
Old 04-04-2008, 05:55 AM   #70  
Gets Weekends Off
 
nw320driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B747FO
Posts: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
Exactly, and every CA that I fly with is going to stay to 65. They do not want to but when you look at the economics of it, guess what it is stupid to leave when you are getting 14% in a DC plan.

The way that I see it, the NWA guys have been arguing their retirements form the wrong perspective. The have been doing so with out the merged company's PWA. Not SLI but the money side of it. They are correct in stating that most guys would not stay for 2K more a month, but is that the case?
If you are looking at a frozen DB plan, yes, but what you fail to consider is the improved work rules and DC plan that would have been a 14%. 14% of a 400's CA pay is a lot of dough for five year. A little public Math...
Assume 200 a hr for a 400 CA.
Year 1 200 + 7% initial raise= 214 per hr. 80 hrs credit a month(this is conservative) 17120 per month.
Or Plan B:

Stay at home and drink beer, play with the wife, grandkids, hunt, fish or whatever. Make $12000 per month or more and not have to deal with the Co, FAA, TSA. Most are just tired of the games. I know some will stay, mostly due to bad planning on their part or the industry.

Hell, at the last LEC meeting, there was a guy (WB Capt) who was pushing for being able to retire at 60 and still being able to fly part-time. He was telling us how it was not only a good deal for him, but a good deal for all of us. Yea, right. I got mine and I want some of yours too. There are always a few....

But, most are just waiting a payout, then they are out of here. I can see the Delta pilots point of view, they are not gone, until they leave, but most at NW feel they will depart at age 60 or soon after. Remember life is terminal, nobody gets out of here alive. I have a two good friends that have retired in the last year, one at 57 and the other at 60. When I ask if the miss the job and do they think if it was the correct choice to retire, both are in agreement, that wish they would have done it sooner. Of course they miss the crews, but not the job.
nw320driver is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NWA or DAL freightguy Major 39 12-13-2007 11:59 PM
Nwa & Dal? RatherBGolfin Major 13 11-02-2007 08:56 AM
DAL and NWA? SWAcapt Major 11 10-04-2007 11:44 AM
DAL and NWA to start flying RJ's SkyHigh Major 109 04-12-2006 09:00 AM
NWA and DAL file Bankruptcy today... geshields Major 0 09-14-2005 02:00 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:00 AM.