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Old 10-07-2008, 06:28 AM   #21  
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Boys, boys, boys. We went first so NWA can pee on our proposal. They go next and we will pee on their proposal. The arbitrated list will come out and we will both pee on it.

Anyone who has been around contract negotiations knows this. If you negotiate anything you start off with an extreme and work your way to the middle. Ever buy a car? You didn't tell the salesman you want to start at sticker and work down. You come in thousands below sticker, he comes back with a sob story, eventually the "manager/arbitrator" gets involved and the deal is reached. In this case, both sides must present extremes as they are representing their own parties. Somewhere in the middle will most likely be where the list comes out. And if this depresses you, just watch the stock market and think of the thousands you are losing if you aren't in cash right now. Wheeeeee!
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:09 AM   #22  
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Agreed, but what we have proposed is in my opinion very close to what the arbitrated or negotiated list will look like. You may see a little less here and a little more here, but overall it is very close to relative seniority. (Plus or Minus a point or two)
I also suspect that it will be tinkered with a little bit.
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:32 AM   #23  
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Guys,

I'm unable to find the Dalpa SLI proposed list......can you help a brother out?
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:55 AM   #24  
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Originally Posted by NWA320pilot View Post
Looked up my seniority based on the DAL proposal and looks like I would move down about 4% overall seniority.......
I would lose 4% seniority as well (a little over 500 numbers). I'm a NWA 99 hire and DAL 07 hires would be senior to me. I guess fair is really in the eye of the beholder. Just not my eyes. Here's to hoping for somewhere in the middle.
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:22 AM   #25  
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Carl,

Did not the DAL proposal group according to gauge, and that ratioed all of our international captain positions against yours? On page 689 of the transcripts I see the 777's, 767-400, and 76/75 Intl on our side grouped against your 747-400, 747-200, A-330, and your 75Intl.
Yes, that's probably right. My point is, ratioing in such a broad category is what gives the DAL guys the 1 to 4% advantage right from the jump and it only gets worse until you get to the bottom where it's only NWA guys.

A ratio of just 777 and 747, then A330 and 767, then narrow bodies would have resulted in closer relative seniority results. Instead it's about a 1.5% NWA disadvantage near the top and 5% plus NWA disadvantage near the bottom. Given that we are both strong airlines with NWA having a higher market cap and higher earnings, I don't see how this systemic DAL advantage from top to bottom will ultimately be justified.

Carl
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:37 AM   #26  
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Agreed, but what we have proposed is in my opinion very close to what the arbitrated or negotiated list will look like. You may see a little less here and a little more here, but overall it is very close to relative seniority. (Plus or Minus a point or two)
I also suspect that it will be tinkered with a little bit.
If that is the case it will make the Red/Green show at NWA look like a walk in the park. As a 1999 hire I go down 4% in this list. Add to that fact that I do not get any credit for the NWA retirements of roughly 40% of our list before DAL sees any kind of retirements at all.

If we are going to do a relative seniority I should lose 0 to.5% of where I am in the list. Guess what I can live with that, but to have DAL 2007 new hires in front of me, not a good thing from the NWA side
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:03 AM   #27  
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Super,

You just got a PM.
PM sent replied
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:05 AM   #28  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
Agreed, but what we have proposed is in my opinion very close to what the arbitrated or negotiated list will look like. You may see a little less here and a little more here, but overall it is very close to relative seniority. (Plus or Minus a point or two)
I also suspect that it will be tinkered with a little bit.
Your last DAL pilot is 400+ numbers up the list thats not close to relative seniority.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:13 AM   #29  
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Your last DAL pilot is 400+ numbers up the list thats not close to relative seniority.
The difference for a 95 hire is 4% or right at 500 numbers to the negative.....
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:22 AM   #30  
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Where are you guys finding this list? I went on the DALPA web site and didn't see anything, except for the transcripts.
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