Delta's Proposed Seniority List
10-18-2008, 12:32 PM
#61
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
In the June 27, 2008 NW flying plan memo they said they will have 58 in service at the end of 2008.
The problem is not what happens to the 58, but what has happened this year. NW has lost 50 airplanes, 1 out of 7 from January 2008, and still has the same number of pilots. How can you lose 14% of your airplanes and still be staffed properly?
If you assume 5 crews per airplane, a loss of 50 airplanes would amount to 500 less pilots needed for 2009. That is why it is not a stretch to have NW pilots at the bottom of the list. Absent the furlough mitigation letter, they would be furloughed right now or in the next few months. What happens at DCC when the furlough mitigation letter expires? Where do all those surplus pilots go?
The problem is not what happens to the 58, but what has happened this year. NW has lost 50 airplanes, 1 out of 7 from January 2008, and still has the same number of pilots. How can you lose 14% of your airplanes and still be staffed properly?
If you assume 5 crews per airplane, a loss of 50 airplanes would amount to 500 less pilots needed for 2009. That is why it is not a stretch to have NW pilots at the bottom of the list. Absent the furlough mitigation letter, they would be furloughed right now or in the next few months. What happens at DCC when the furlough mitigation letter expires? Where do all those surplus pilots go?
Carl
10-18-2008, 01:01 PM
#62
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
In the June 27, 2008 NW flying plan memo they said they will have 58 in service at the end of 2008.
The problem is not what happens to the 58, but what has happened this year. NW has lost 50 airplanes, 1 out of 7 from January 2008, and still has the same number of pilots. How can you lose 14% of your airplanes and still be staffed properly?
If you assume 5 crews per airplane, a loss of 50 airplanes would amount to 500 less pilots needed for 2009. That is why it is not a stretch to have NW pilots at the bottom of the list. Absent the furlough mitigation letter, they would be furloughed right now or in the next few months. What happens at DCC when the furlough mitigation letter expires? Where do all those surplus pilots go?
The problem is not what happens to the 58, but what has happened this year. NW has lost 50 airplanes, 1 out of 7 from January 2008, and still has the same number of pilots. How can you lose 14% of your airplanes and still be staffed properly?
If you assume 5 crews per airplane, a loss of 50 airplanes would amount to 500 less pilots needed for 2009. That is why it is not a stretch to have NW pilots at the bottom of the list. Absent the furlough mitigation letter, they would be furloughed right now or in the next few months. What happens at DCC when the furlough mitigation letter expires? Where do all those surplus pilots go?
See, that's were you're wrong. NW pilots continue to retire every month, therefore we do not have the same amount of pilots as we did on June 27, 2008.
I'm not even going to begin to argue with you on that one. At least the arbitrators understand.
10-18-2008, 03:20 PM
#63
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Nwa has always been run thin and were short last year also. The retirements have outnumbered the small amount of hiring that took place. We also have alot of people on all sorts of leaves. We are short enough where the company won't award all of the PERPs that were applied for. Last flying report shows 4902 active pilots and late last year the list had over 5300 pilots I believe. Bottom line is we aren't fully staffed and I don't know if Nwa has ever been fully staffed.
Last edited by Superpilot92; 10-19-2008 at 08:57 AM.
10-19-2008, 09:13 AM
#65
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by capncrunch
NWA shrunk itself into profitability and Delta expanded itself into a money loser. Their expansion/shrinking argument for placing 500 of our pilots on the bottom is ridiculous.
Carl
10-19-2008, 09:23 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
NWA also "shrunk" itself into a more valuable company than DAL even though NWA is 2/3 the size of DAL. Thursday's and Friday's closing price for the 2 companies both showed NWA with a higher market cap.
Carl
Carl
I can't figure out how to attach a .jpg, but take a look at a chart of the ratio of the NWA stock price to the DAL stock price since both came out of bankruptcy. You can do that here: NWA/DAL chart Notice the trend while they were separate companies, and what happened right around January, when rumors of the impending merger started to leak out. Note its heading right to the 1.25 conversion ratio. Pretty much says it all.
Last edited by Pineapple Guy; 10-19-2008 at 09:30 AM.
10-19-2008, 11:10 AM
#67
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Carl, you keep ignoring the fact that NWA shares are trading as 1.25 new, joint DAL/NWA shares, and have nothing to do with internal NWA value.
I can't figure out how to attach a .jpg, but take a look at a chart of the ratio of the NWA stock price to the DAL stock price since both came out of bankruptcy. You can do that here: NWA/DAL chart Notice the trend while they were separate companies, and what happened right around January, when rumors of the impending merger started to leak out. Note its heading right to the 1.25 conversion ratio. Pretty much says it all.
I can't figure out how to attach a .jpg, but take a look at a chart of the ratio of the NWA stock price to the DAL stock price since both came out of bankruptcy. You can do that here: NWA/DAL chart Notice the trend while they were separate companies, and what happened right around January, when rumors of the impending merger started to leak out. Note its heading right to the 1.25 conversion ratio. Pretty much says it all.
Either way the facts are that NWA is 2/3's the size of DAL yet makes more money. The big picture here is that WE all should have a great profitable company to work for once this is over. NWA is a strong airline that will do nothing but help DAL become stronger. Cheers to that
10-19-2008, 11:36 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Not that I want to steer this thread from it's present trajectory, but I hope that when the NWA seniority proposal is leaked, it gets sanitized of the names and birth dates.
I'm sure the Delta guys are going to be as happy with the NWA proposal as the NWA guys were with ours.
I'm sure the Delta guys are going to be as happy with the NWA proposal as the NWA guys were with ours.
10-19-2008, 11:52 AM
#69
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by CVG767A
Not that I want to steer this thread from it's present trajectory, but I hope that when the NWA seniority proposal is leaked, it gets sanitized of the names and birth dates.
I'm sure the Delta guys are going to be as happy with the NWA proposal as the NWA guys were with ours.
I'm sure the Delta guys are going to be as happy with the NWA proposal as the NWA guys were with ours.
10-19-2008, 02:12 PM
#70
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Carl, you keep ignoring the fact that NWA shares are trading as 1.25 new, joint DAL/NWA shares, and have nothing to do with internal NWA value.
So tell me Pineapple, does THAT have anything to do with NWA's internal value? Or did every stock investor know the merger was going to happen before it did?
Note the emphasis on the word BEFORE...
Carl
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
