captive apple

I wasn’t talking about pay rates so I stopped reading after your 2nd sentence.

pangolin

So we just pick a random thread to discuss any old thing?

copy

Why would JetBlue management give flying to breeze? If they gave flying to breeze, that revenue flows to breeze, which is in no way related to jetblue. And how exactly would they give flying to breeze? Breeze is free to fly where it wants. They aren’t reliant upon anyone to “give them” flying. There is no mechanism for JetBlue to give flying to breeze, nor is there any sort of business relationship.

If you are trying to say that JetBlue will just contract out flying to Breeze (or threaten to) with a capacity purchase agreement or joint venture or something like that if JetBlue pilots don’t take pay or QOL cuts, well, that can’t happen either with JetBlue’s scope, which specifically prevents that. Breeze isn’t a regional, and neither is JetBlue. They do their own flying and sell their own tickets...so it is kind of hard (or impossible rather) to whipsaw pilot groups in that situation. That’d be like saying AA will whipsaw Delta pilots. AA can whipsaw its regionals and just give flying to another group with lower costs/pay, because it controls the CPAs. Amazon can whipsaw the cargo contract companies who bid for prime flying. But two independent pax carriers who will compete against each other? Not really a situation where a whipsaw can happen, and certainly not with JetBlue, whose scope is the most restrictive in the country behind southwest. There cannot be and will not be any outsourcing of JetBlue flying.

Once JetBlue starts growing block hours and hiring again, then they are free, per scope, to enter into a codeshare agreement with Breeze (or anyone else), but codeshares don’t allow for revenue sharing like JVs, so there really isn’t much reason for JetBlue to do that.

And lastly, JetBlue management just offered jetblue pilots no furloughs and a 1 year contract extension with an additional pay raise, in exchange for what we believe (not confirmed or public yet) is additional AA codeshare allowances. Why would they offer no furloughs and a pay raise if they were trying to cut pilot costs and get pay/QOL concessions?

Last, JetBlue can’t feasibly park the 190s as maintenance contract payments and lease payments are due regardless of whether the planes are sitting in storage or being flown, so they are looking for any flying they can to utilize them. And they still have A220s and 321NEOs coming...there are more planes coming in than they can feasibly park. So giving away/outsourcing flying, even if it were possible (which it isn’t), doesn’t make sense.

So, in short, no...there cannot and will not be a JetBlue/breeze whipsaw.

edit: why is this in a Mesa WARN thread? If you want to talk jetblue/breeze whipsaws, feel free to take this to the jetblue thread. But I’m out

OnFingers12345

tl;dr

filler

brocklee9000

As far as I can tell, yeah. They've been completely opaque about it, like Vantablack. Every month they announce offering leave, pushing for Voluntary Time Off (which sounds akin to zero hour lines or whatever other companies call it) offering no pay but covering insurance/benefits. Then the paid time off, which is 50 hours (but you're on the hook for your portion of insurance/benefits). However they never say how many leaves they're willing to offer, for how long, in which seat, which domiciles, which aircraft. About halfway into the PBS bidding window, people start to get locked out of PBS and active bidders can see names crossed off the domicile seniority list. We also have a list of how many expected lines and reserve lines will be in each domicile and seat, and when they award leave then the projected total of reserve lines decreases. At one point we received a company email stating they haven't been able to disclose how many VTO or PTO due to "IT limitations" or some nonsense.

Anyway. We get no peek under the hood, and the only way to know is by seeing which bases had their forecasted reserve lines decreased. For example, if an overstaffed base like DTW had 50 reserves and then a few days later shows 20, then we can assume 30 people were awarded leave. What we can't gather is if they received paid leave, unpaid leave, if it was for 1 month or 6, etc etc. And it changes from month to month. For example in my base, 1 FO was given leave last month (no clue what type) but no CA or FA was given any. For January, like 14 leaves were given out, but also no real clue. In the early days of the MOU, they were granting unpaid leave for up to 6 months, so if someone's name remained crossed out in PBS month after month, you could sorta guess they were on VTO. For the upcoming month, everyone came back but then they awarded a bunch of leave again. Some were those long-term VTO folk but others were people I hadn't seen on leave yet. So yeah, opaque. Every month when they beg, they're adamant about VTO being awarded and then, possibly, PTO. So I'm assuming mostly VTO. The few captains I've met that took some form of leave were all VTO.

Yeah it'll be interesting. Some groups had a little more BOHICA than others. So much precipitousness right now. WN teetering on the edge, AA too, B6 propped up with a short term no-furlough clause. Then you have DL which negotiated late in the year and seemed to get a deal for all of 2021. Everyone seemed so focused on making it to October 2020 and ignored the "beyond." Undoubtedly managements all around will use a downturn to force substandard agreements. And I'm sure our not-a-union will keep doing their not-a-union shenanigans.

pangolin

Mods as a Mesa guy I implore you to close the thread. It’s hopelessly off track.

mjpilot

Hey, thanks for the insights.

brigadeaviator

As much flack that complainers give our Union, I’m glad we have union representation here at Mesa. Thank you for the insight.

pangolin

Oh I think a whole bunch of people are about to have a crow sandwich. I’ll take the first bite.

StinkyCA

Pray tell 😊