Mesa
01-24-2014, 12:15 PM
#1261
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
Originally Posted by CBreezy
Easy there Bruce Banner. If you want to argue, perhaps you should argue with Part 117. You know, if you'd read it:
117.21(b): "Any reserve that meets the definition of airport/standby reserve must be designated as airport/standby reserve. For airport/standby reserve, all time spent in a reserve status is part of the flightcrew member's flight duty period."
I don't see after anywhere in there either.
117.21(b): "Any reserve that meets the definition of airport/standby reserve must be designated as airport/standby reserve. For airport/standby reserve, all time spent in a reserve status is part of the flightcrew member's flight duty period."
I don't see after anywhere in there either.
So you're trying to argue that while I'm out flying airplanes, I am in a reserve status designated as "airport/standby reserve" by the company.
That is not the case--I cannot possibly be in a reserve status designated as "airport/standby" reserve by the company while I'm out flying, b/c I am neither in an airport nor standing by on reserve--I am flying an aeroplane in the sky--I am still in the same FDP that started with a segment of airport/standby reserve, but now that I am flying, once I've completed my last segment I am pumpkins when the brake is set with no intention of further aircraft movement (unless more flight segments have been added to my schedule prior to brake set).
Even if your argument were correct, from the pairings I've seen from Mesa, they are not designating reserves as "airport/standby" reserve the minute they block-in--they are putting in a "ground time" block of 30 minutes or so in between the last flight segment and a block of airport/standby reserve.
"ground time" is not "airport/standby reserve."
And "airport/standby reserve" is only considered part of the same FDP when it occurs BEFORE or BETWEEN flight segments. Not AFTER. If it occurs AFTER a flight segment blocks in, and 30+ minutes of "ground time" (not designated as aiport reserve) a further airport/standby reserve block on your schedule is a second FDP, and you're starting it without legal rest IMMEDIATELY prior to beginning it, as required by 117.
I don't understand why this is so hard to understand--it's not that complicated. Am I the only one on here who has both read the regs and also sees this? Anyone?
01-24-2014, 12:22 PM
#1262
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
Here is an example:
AIRPORT RESERVE: 15:00-16:10
Flight xxx ORD-MEM: 16:55-18:39
Flight xxx MEM-ORD: 19:18-20:45
"GROUND TIME" : 20:45-21:15
AIRPORT RESERVE: : 21:15-00:00
So CBreezy is saying that this crewmember is in a "reserve status" designated as "airport/standby reserve" from 15:00-00:00.
I am arguing that you ceased being in an "airport/standby reserve status" (or an FDP) when the plane blocked in in ORD at 20:45 with no intention of further aircraft movement, and that the second block of airport/standby reserve is a new, second FDP which the crewmember is beginning without 10 hours of rest "immediately prior to beginning the reserve period"
Who agrees with me?
AIRPORT RESERVE: 15:00-16:10
Flight xxx ORD-MEM: 16:55-18:39
Flight xxx MEM-ORD: 19:18-20:45
"GROUND TIME" : 20:45-21:15
AIRPORT RESERVE: : 21:15-00:00
So CBreezy is saying that this crewmember is in a "reserve status" designated as "airport/standby reserve" from 15:00-00:00.
I am arguing that you ceased being in an "airport/standby reserve status" (or an FDP) when the plane blocked in in ORD at 20:45 with no intention of further aircraft movement, and that the second block of airport/standby reserve is a new, second FDP which the crewmember is beginning without 10 hours of rest "immediately prior to beginning the reserve period"
Who agrees with me?
01-24-2014, 01:01 PM
#1263
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 996
I agree. However you need clarification from the chief pilot / do. If they are assigning you this and it turns out the be illegal you could be held liable for accepting it
01-24-2014, 01:48 PM
#1264
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by flapshalfspeed
Here is an example:
AIRPORT RESERVE: 15:00-16:10
Flight xxx ORD-MEM: 16:55-18:39
Flight xxx MEM-ORD: 19:18-20:45
"GROUND TIME" : 20:45-21:15
AIRPORT RESERVE: : 21:15-00:00
So CBreezy is saying that this crewmember is in a "reserve status" designated as "airport/standby reserve" from 15:00-00:00.
I am arguing that you ceased being in an "airport/standby reserve status" (or an FDP) when the plane blocked in in ORD at 20:45 with no intention of further aircraft movement, and that the second block of airport/standby reserve is a new, second FDP which the crewmember is beginning without 10 hours of rest "immediately prior to beginning the reserve period"
Who agrees with me?
AIRPORT RESERVE: 15:00-16:10
Flight xxx ORD-MEM: 16:55-18:39
Flight xxx MEM-ORD: 19:18-20:45
"GROUND TIME" : 20:45-21:15
AIRPORT RESERVE: : 21:15-00:00
So CBreezy is saying that this crewmember is in a "reserve status" designated as "airport/standby reserve" from 15:00-00:00.
I am arguing that you ceased being in an "airport/standby reserve status" (or an FDP) when the plane blocked in in ORD at 20:45 with no intention of further aircraft movement, and that the second block of airport/standby reserve is a new, second FDP which the crewmember is beginning without 10 hours of rest "immediately prior to beginning the reserve period"
Who agrees with me?
Once your FDP starts, it cannot be stopped or paused until you are put to rest. If your schedule is blank between flight segments or reserve periods, you are still on duty. I don't understand what your confusion is.
01-24-2014, 02:27 PM
#1265
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: South Paw
Posts: 630
Flaps if your right then there have been thousands of violations already. But what I read is airport/stanbye is a FDP. This **** is giving me a headache.
01-24-2014, 02:32 PM
#1266
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: South Paw
Posts: 630
Originally Posted by tinman1
Appx how many captains are there company wide?
Last edited by skillett; 01-24-2014 at 03:11 PM.
01-24-2014, 02:42 PM
#1267
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: South Paw
Posts: 630
Originally Posted by FerrisBluer
The schedules are atrocious. Min days off, barely breaking 78hrs.
Yet a pilot with vacation (7days of vacation)plus 11 days off min. Totaling 18 days off still gets a 78 hr line of flying.
So basically some pilots could have had an additional 7 days off in the month and still come out ahead.
MAG has taken a complete lackadaisical approach to the implementation of 117 and furthermore pilots are growing increasingly frustrated with the secrecy of the E175 program. The initial cadre has been selected for the project. Yet no one knows who has actually gone or how they were selected. Doesn't really matter but the only details company wide being received were from the former VP of Flight ops emails that left much to be desired? Currently CRJ upgrades are merely a trickle.
Middle of the road captains are trying desperately to get out ... But are getting reject letters. Mainline wants any name other than Bob,Steve or Tim etc.
I'm looking to jump based purely off MAG Mgmts. eminating disrespect for me as a professional. To work in an environment that is so self-deprecating is quite exhausting. *
*here comes a statement from prior121
Yet a pilot with vacation (7days of vacation)plus 11 days off min. Totaling 18 days off still gets a 78 hr line of flying.
So basically some pilots could have had an additional 7 days off in the month and still come out ahead.
MAG has taken a complete lackadaisical approach to the implementation of 117 and furthermore pilots are growing increasingly frustrated with the secrecy of the E175 program. The initial cadre has been selected for the project. Yet no one knows who has actually gone or how they were selected. Doesn't really matter but the only details company wide being received were from the former VP of Flight ops emails that left much to be desired? Currently CRJ upgrades are merely a trickle.
Middle of the road captains are trying desperately to get out ... But are getting reject letters. Mainline wants any name other than Bob,Steve or Tim etc.
I'm looking to jump based purely off MAG Mgmts. eminating disrespect for me as a professional. To work in an environment that is so self-deprecating is quite exhausting. *
*here comes a statement from prior121
Last edited by skillett; 01-24-2014 at 03:21 PM.
01-24-2014, 02:59 PM
#1268
Holds Weds & Thurs Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: 88B
Posts: 177
Even though there are 450 global And a few PermoFO's.
01-24-2014, 03:12 PM
#1269
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: South Paw
Posts: 630
Originally Posted by PermaFo
Yes I'm still here.
01-24-2014, 03:31 PM
#1270
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by FerrisBluer
The schedules are atrocious. Min days off, barely breaking 78hrs.
Yet a pilot with vacation (7days of vacation)plus 11 days off min. Totaling 18 days off still gets a 78 hr line of flying.
So basically some pilots could have had an additional 7 days off in the month and still come out ahead.
MAG has taken a complete lackadaisical approach to the implementation of 117 and furthermore pilots are growing increasingly frustrated with the secrecy of the E175 program. The initial cadre has been selected for the project. Yet no one knows who has actually gone or how they were selected. Doesn't really matter but the only details company wide being received were from the former VP of Flight ops emails that left much to be desired? Currently CRJ upgrades are merely a trickle.
Middle of the road captains are trying desperately to get out ... But are getting reject letters. Mainline wants any name other than Bob,Steve or Tim etc.
I'm looking to jump based purely off MAG Mgmts. eminating disrespect for me as a professional. To work in an environment that is so self-deprecating is quite exhausting. *
*here comes a statement from prior121
Yet a pilot with vacation (7days of vacation)plus 11 days off min. Totaling 18 days off still gets a 78 hr line of flying.
So basically some pilots could have had an additional 7 days off in the month and still come out ahead.
MAG has taken a complete lackadaisical approach to the implementation of 117 and furthermore pilots are growing increasingly frustrated with the secrecy of the E175 program. The initial cadre has been selected for the project. Yet no one knows who has actually gone or how they were selected. Doesn't really matter but the only details company wide being received were from the former VP of Flight ops emails that left much to be desired? Currently CRJ upgrades are merely a trickle.
Middle of the road captains are trying desperately to get out ... But are getting reject letters. Mainline wants any name other than Bob,Steve or Tim etc.
I'm looking to jump based purely off MAG Mgmts. eminating disrespect for me as a professional. To work in an environment that is so self-deprecating is quite exhausting. *
*here comes a statement from prior121
The E-175 program sounds a lot like the Desert Sun issue we had a while back. Risley handpicked the guys to go fly those Fokkers and operated it as a different company (so they were essentially off the seniority list). Then when it failed, he brought them all back without a loss of seniority. Didn't they do that again with Freedom Air? Was there any action taken by ALPA for the seniority issues?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
