Mesa
01-26-2014, 12:32 PM
#1291
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
Originally Posted by CBreezy
You've presented nothing other than one reference from 117. I'd be happy to entertain any clarification letters you say you are using.
Under your assumption, because it is an assumption, when you start airport reserve and are subsequently assigned flying, it is illegal. You did not receive your requiste 10 hour rest prior because you reported for duty without any intention of aircraft movement and left your rest status as required by the company.
When your RAP or Airport Reserve begins, you have an intention of aircraft movement as assigned by the company. For the former, you are limited to 14 hours of reserve availability and for airport reserve, you are limited to time calculated in Table B.
Under your assumption, because it is an assumption, when you start airport reserve and are subsequently assigned flying, it is illegal. You did not receive your requiste 10 hour rest prior because you reported for duty without any intention of aircraft movement and left your rest status as required by the company.
When your RAP or Airport Reserve begins, you have an intention of aircraft movement as assigned by the company. For the former, you are limited to 14 hours of reserve availability and for airport reserve, you are limited to time calculated in Table B.
Reserve flightcrew member means a flightcrew member who a certificate holder requires to be available to receive an assignment for duty
Flight duty period (FDP) means a period that begins when a flightcrew member is required to report for duty with the intention of conducting a flight, a series of flights, or positioning or ferrying flights, and ends when the aircraft is parked after the last flight and there is no intention for further aircraft movement by the same flightcrew member
Being "available to receive an assignment" and having an "intention for further aircraft movement" are very different things.
Being in an airport/standby reserve status (or any reserve status) simply means you're available for an assignment--it doesn't require an intention of further aircraft movement or flight.
01-26-2014, 02:46 PM
#1292
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: United DCA 756 FO
Posts: 23
Expecting interview offer from Mesa… Researching my best options for living in SC. CLT basing is ideal but I expect that it is a senior base.
1. What are the chances of being based in CLT as a new guy on reserve?
2. Where are the junior bases?
3. How long should I expect to be in reserve?
4. How long should I expect till I could bid for CLT?
I know that these things change on a daily basis but, a best guess from someone flying for Mesa would help.
Thanks,
Tuna
1. What are the chances of being based in CLT as a new guy on reserve?
2. Where are the junior bases?
3. How long should I expect to be in reserve?
4. How long should I expect till I could bid for CLT?
I know that these things change on a daily basis but, a best guess from someone flying for Mesa would help.
Thanks,
Tuna
01-26-2014, 03:15 PM
#1293
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 774
Originally Posted by TunaUSMC
Expecting interview offer from Mesa… Researching my best options for living in SC. CLT basing is ideal but I expect that it is a senior base.
1. What are the chances of being based in CLT as a new guy on reserve?
2. Where are the junior bases?
3. How long should I expect to be in reserve?
4. How long should I expect till I could bid for CLT?
I know that these things change on a daily basis but, a best guess from someone flying for Mesa would help.
Thanks,
Tuna
1. What are the chances of being based in CLT as a new guy on reserve?
2. Where are the junior bases?
3. How long should I expect to be in reserve?
4. How long should I expect till I could bid for CLT?
I know that these things change on a daily basis but, a best guess from someone flying for Mesa would help.
Thanks,
Tuna
As long as classes are being run, they run a bid every month; so if you don't get clt right away, you'll definitely get it the next time around. Time on reserve depends on how many people are flowing into the base, so In clt it shouldn't be forever once you get some seniority numbers under you.
01-26-2014, 04:09 PM
#1294
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: Dispatcher / Meteorolgist
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by CBreezy
Airport reserve isn't a RAP. Short call or long call is. Airport reserve is flight duty. If you are on airport reserve prior to a flight segment, it counts as FDP. If you are on short call reserve prior to a flight segment, it does NOT count as FDP. If you fly a leg and are placed on airport reserve, then are subsequently scheduled to fly a leg, you must count all time spent in airport reserve as duty and cannot accept the assignment if you will exceed your FDP.
I just remembered something from a clarification I received: Here's where it gets really vague. If you are scheduled for airport reserve and pick up a trip at the 10 hour mark, assuming you start at 0600, you will only have 2 hours of duty remaining and the entire 12 hour period counts toward your cumulative for 168. If you are not scheduled to fly, the x hours you spent on reserve does not count toward FDP cumulative limits.
In the example above, you're correct in that it wouldn't technically be FDP until midnight. However, if you are assigned at 2200, all of it would count as FDP and need to be considered. It's no different if you are scheduled to deadhead at the very end of your legal FDP.
The moral of the story is, it is a legal assignment and no 10 hour rest is required prior to being assigned it.
I just remembered something from a clarification I received: Here's where it gets really vague. If you are scheduled for airport reserve and pick up a trip at the 10 hour mark, assuming you start at 0600, you will only have 2 hours of duty remaining and the entire 12 hour period counts toward your cumulative for 168. If you are not scheduled to fly, the x hours you spent on reserve does not count toward FDP cumulative limits.
In the example above, you're correct in that it wouldn't technically be FDP until midnight. However, if you are assigned at 2200, all of it would count as FDP and need to be considered. It's no different if you are scheduled to deadhead at the very end of your legal FDP.
The moral of the story is, it is a legal assignment and no 10 hour rest is required prior to being assigned it.
117.21 Reserve Status
(a) Unless specifically designated as airport/standby or short-call reserve by the certificate holder, all reserve is considered long-call reserve.
(b) Any reserve that meets the definition of airport/standby reserve must be designated as airport/standby reserve. For airport/standby reserve, all time spent in a reserve status is part of the flightcrew member’s flight duty period.
01-26-2014, 04:58 PM
#1295
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,064
Originally Posted by wxman
I did not say that Airport/Standby Reserve was RAP, I said it was Reserve.
117.21 Reserve Status
(a) Unless specifically designated as airport/standby or short-call reserve by the certificate holder, all reserve is considered long-call reserve.
(b) Any reserve that meets the definition of airport/standby reserve must be designated as airport/standby reserve. For airport/standby reserve, all time spent in a reserve status is part of the flightcrew member’s flight duty period.
117.21 Reserve Status
(a) Unless specifically designated as airport/standby or short-call reserve by the certificate holder, all reserve is considered long-call reserve.
(b) Any reserve that meets the definition of airport/standby reserve must be designated as airport/standby reserve. For airport/standby reserve, all time spent in a reserve status is part of the flightcrew member’s flight duty period.
Whoever asked if I'm V.V., I am not nor do I work at Mesa.
Flaps, how do you explain the above? I've brought it up 3 times now and you've yet to explain it.
Check out section k of the Flight Duty Clarification on the FAA website. It CLEARLY states that regardless if you fly or not, ready reserve is part of a FDP. My point stands. Airport reserve at the end of an assignment is legal.
As for reading federal rules and regulations, it was my job well before I ever entered aviation. I'm not a rookie. Also, check out the ALPA 117 guide, specifically regarding reserve.
01-26-2014, 05:44 PM
#1296
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
To everyone who is thinking about which airline to work for, look at the difference between this thread and the Skywest thread. The mesa pilots are afraid the company will schedule them for an illegal flight and at Skywest, the question is which sweet base is the best. Full disclosure, 3 years at MAG.
01-26-2014, 10:23 PM
#1297
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Originally Posted by Navmode
The base you get will depend on class seniority which is by age (oldest being more senior). Depending on what staffing is like when they run your standing bid, some may go to Honolulu (the most junior. Otherwise the rest will probably be split down the middle between iAd and clt with possibly 1 or 2 to ORD. Phx is the most senior so if anyone wants that, advise them not to hold their breath.
As long as classes are being run, they run a bid every month; so if you don't get clt right away, you'll definitely get it the next time around. Time on reserve depends on how many people are flowing into the base, so In clt it shouldn't be forever once you get some seniority numbers under you.
As long as classes are being run, they run a bid every month; so if you don't get clt right away, you'll definitely get it the next time around. Time on reserve depends on how many people are flowing into the base, so In clt it shouldn't be forever once you get some seniority numbers under you.
Tuna,
Navmode has it exactly right. Getting CLT will be quick if not instant, as long as hiring continues, and it should.
SEMPER FI ...I can't remember, are squid vets allowed to say that?
01-27-2014, 03:21 PM
#1298
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Bob's Big Boy Front Office Staffer
Posts: 263
You're going to Dulles.
01-28-2014, 07:24 AM
#1299
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: CRJ
Posts: 273
Mesa
So last night on airport reserve I called after all planes in base had taken off to get released. The crew tracker said, "I know all of the planes have left, but we haven't finished crewing for tomorrow. We might need to adjust your show time (for the next day)". Are you kidding me? Clearly not the intent of the new regs. They had no intention of me flying last night...they were just keeping me on the hook for the following day if something came up!
01-28-2014, 07:50 AM
#1300
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Originally Posted by squall line
So last night on airport reserve I called after all planes in base had taken off to get released. The crew tracker said, "I know all of the planes have left, but we haven't finished crewing for tomorrow. We might need to adjust your show time (for the next day)". Are you kidding me? Clearly not the intent of the new regs. They had no intention of me flying last night...they were just keeping me on the hook for the following day if something came up!
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