Mesa
08-17-2014 | 04:19 AM
#2461
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
From: CL-65
I found this FAA interpretation letter from March of this year that clarifies most of the gray areas of 121.436. I'm assuming this is what NovemberBravo and his all star class found in their Google search, however I won't be an arrogant douche and I'll post it here for ya:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
Long story short--cargo-only time doesn't count if the seats are removed, regardless of the original type certificated seating configuration of the aircraft.
On a side note, this isn't even something that affects me personally, but I strongly believe that all pilots should always help each other out on stuff like this and discuss the regs. Maybe I'm old fashioned, or maybe I've just done too many meetings as a union rep where conflicting interpretations happen all the time, but NovemberBravo I think it's really, really bad karma to be a douche about your internet searching skills instead of sharing whatever info you have about something.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
Long story short--cargo-only time doesn't count if the seats are removed, regardless of the original type certificated seating configuration of the aircraft.
On a side note, this isn't even something that affects me personally, but I strongly believe that all pilots should always help each other out on stuff like this and discuss the regs. Maybe I'm old fashioned, or maybe I've just done too many meetings as a union rep where conflicting interpretations happen all the time, but NovemberBravo I think it's really, really bad karma to be a douche about your internet searching skills instead of sharing whatever info you have about something.
08-17-2014 | 06:20 AM
#2462
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: men without hats
Mesa also did not anticipate this to happen with the EJets, but it is still possible in a way for a CLT Captain to get displaced in Oct/Nov etc, and instead of going to DFW they downgrade to FO in CLT and wait until they get to the end to go to DFW/IAD/PHX or wherever and then rebid/upgrade to the EJET. So unless Mesa issues one massive displacement with dates from OCT to June, you can expect some Captains to downgrade to get over to the EJet. Its just another flaw in the contract Mesa will try to avoid and I don't think has really thought much about. It is possible with displacements and downgrades to get and upgrade in the Ejet now. Good Luck Guys/Gals!
08-17-2014 | 07:12 AM
#2465
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: men without hats
Downgrading just to re-upgrade on a plane with a single base ~200 miles from where you were going to be sent anyway... Sounds like a great plan.
08-17-2014 | 07:28 AM
#2466
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
Mesa
HNL closed and Captains there were not allowed to downgrade so they could hold PHX as a FO. While I believe they should have been afforded the ability, it was not allowed by the company.
08-17-2014 | 07:43 AM
#2467
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
From: Mannin' deez blenps
----------------
Mesa also did not anticipate this to happen with the EJets, but it is still possible in a way for a CLT Captain to get displaced in Oct/Nov etc, and instead of going to DFW they downgrade to FO in CLT and wait until they get to the end to go to DFW/IAD/PHX or wherever and then rebid/upgrade to the EJET. So unless Mesa issues one massive displacement with dates from OCT to June, you can expect some Captains to downgrade to get over to the EJet. Its just another flaw in the contract Mesa will try to avoid and I don't think has really thought much about. It is possible with displacements and downgrades to get and upgrade in the Ejet now. Good Luck Guys/Gals!
That whole process could end up costing a CLT captain about $6000-$12,000 +++. I think a lot of it is being upset that they have to move and commute now. Which is understandable for them? It is a loophole that I think The company does not expect anyone to go through and all that trouble for the EJET? The ones that do appear to want to go through that trouble are just going through some anxiety and a little bit of bitterness at losing their long time domicile. (Me thinks)
According to the above:
Sounds like they're not gonna be able to do it anyways?
Upgrades haven't even begun in the numbers that are about to happen. Being on property with some prior 121 experience might be the best thing for you right now.
My .02
Last edited by Bumbaclot; 08-17-2014 at 08:13 AM.
08-17-2014 | 08:09 AM
#2468
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Cloud surfing
For any of you wondering if you get hired now if you will upgrade the honest answer is no. Not unless we get more growth. So if you plan to come to Mesa as a new hire right now, you have better start hoping hard we get more airplanes and can staff them all.
We have the CRJ staffed for the LAX flying.
The EJet has the current 5 flying but 6 planes staffed plus some in training and some awarded for a future date next month leaving about 110 upgrades if that left to be awarded for the remaining 24 EJets.
While we are filling classes at the moment, over the next year as others downsize/exchange 200/145 flying for bigger planes it will eventually become much harder to find pilots to recruit even if we get more planes awarded. You better hope, even with additional flying that at the halfway point of Mesa staffing them we can continue to find FO's to come here hoping for even more, just so you can get your upgrade that you hoped you would get on the planned deliveries. Basically at some point, things will not work out for you and Mesa due to poor staffing. If you deny this, you will learn the hard way. I have been at Mesa a long time and it is a cycle here. Good Luck, I wish all of you the best, I am glad to see you guys on line, with all the positive outlooks, but lets be real sometimes as most of you have families involved and this industry can be a real bummer in a flick of the eye.
If we do get more flying, you got lucky. That is what you need in this industry. It is all timing. Upward and Onward!!!
We have the CRJ staffed for the LAX flying.
The EJet has the current 5 flying but 6 planes staffed plus some in training and some awarded for a future date next month leaving about 110 upgrades if that left to be awarded for the remaining 24 EJets.
While we are filling classes at the moment, over the next year as others downsize/exchange 200/145 flying for bigger planes it will eventually become much harder to find pilots to recruit even if we get more planes awarded. You better hope, even with additional flying that at the halfway point of Mesa staffing them we can continue to find FO's to come here hoping for even more, just so you can get your upgrade that you hoped you would get on the planned deliveries. Basically at some point, things will not work out for you and Mesa due to poor staffing. If you deny this, you will learn the hard way. I have been at Mesa a long time and it is a cycle here. Good Luck, I wish all of you the best, I am glad to see you guys on line, with all the positive outlooks, but lets be real sometimes as most of you have families involved and this industry can be a real bummer in a flick of the eye.
If we do get more flying, you got lucky. That is what you need in this industry. It is all timing. Upward and Onward!!!
How about attrition as more captains move to majors?
By the way, what is the attrition today?
08-17-2014 | 08:09 AM
#2469
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: EMB175 Captain
For any of you wondering if you get hired now if you will upgrade the honest answer is no. Not unless we get more growth. So if you plan to come to Mesa as a new hire right now, you have better start hoping hard we get more airplanes and can staff them all.
We have the CRJ staffed for the LAX flying.
The EJet has the current 5 flying but 6 planes staffed plus some in training and some awarded for a future date next month leaving about 110 upgrades if that left to be awarded for the remaining 24 EJets.
While we are filling classes at the moment, over the next year as others downsize/exchange 200/145 flying for bigger planes it will eventually become much harder to find pilots to recruit even if we get more planes awarded. You better hope, even with additional flying that at the halfway point of Mesa staffing them we can continue to find FO's to come here hoping for even more, just so you can get your upgrade that you hoped you would get on the planned deliveries. Basically at some point, things will not work out for you and Mesa due to poor staffing. If you deny this, you will learn the hard way. I have been at Mesa a long time and it is a cycle here. Good Luck, I wish all of you the best, I am glad to see you guys on line, with all the positive outlooks, but lets be real sometimes as most of you have families involved and this industry can be a real bummer in a flick of the eye.
If we do get more flying, you got lucky. That is what you need in this industry. It is all timing. Upward and Onward!!!
We have the CRJ staffed for the LAX flying.
The EJet has the current 5 flying but 6 planes staffed plus some in training and some awarded for a future date next month leaving about 110 upgrades if that left to be awarded for the remaining 24 EJets.
While we are filling classes at the moment, over the next year as others downsize/exchange 200/145 flying for bigger planes it will eventually become much harder to find pilots to recruit even if we get more planes awarded. You better hope, even with additional flying that at the halfway point of Mesa staffing them we can continue to find FO's to come here hoping for even more, just so you can get your upgrade that you hoped you would get on the planned deliveries. Basically at some point, things will not work out for you and Mesa due to poor staffing. If you deny this, you will learn the hard way. I have been at Mesa a long time and it is a cycle here. Good Luck, I wish all of you the best, I am glad to see you guys on line, with all the positive outlooks, but lets be real sometimes as most of you have families involved and this industry can be a real bummer in a flick of the eye.
If we do get more flying, you got lucky. That is what you need in this industry. It is all timing. Upward and Onward!!!
08-17-2014 | 08:57 AM
#2470
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 0
From: Left
To some it may be worth it to no have to drive 400 miles round trip to get to and from work..... Also just because the bases are 200 miles apart doesn't mean someone lives right in the middle. Maybe they already live 100 miles in the wrong direction.
I would do it assuming the temporary pay cut wouldn't cripple me.
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