Mesa
10-28-2013 | 11:44 AM
#422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
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Correct me if I'm wrong prior121, but the way I read the CBA, there are only 3 ways to the 175s.
1. Selected as one of the thirty initial cadre check airman.
2. Upgrade into it from any FO spot.
3. New hire FO.
Thats it! Right? It is considered "equal" equipment @ 76 seat pay thereby creating a fence between crj and erj.
Of course they can waive any rule but management already went to the trouble to spell out in that first email that bidding rights would be governed by the CBA
I hope they let people move freely but I don't see it because training costs would rise.
1. Selected as one of the thirty initial cadre check airman.
2. Upgrade into it from any FO spot.
3. New hire FO.
Thats it! Right? It is considered "equal" equipment @ 76 seat pay thereby creating a fence between crj and erj.
Of course they can waive any rule but management already went to the trouble to spell out in that first email that bidding rights would be governed by the CBA
I hope they let people move freely but I don't see it because training costs would rise.
10-28-2013 | 11:45 AM
#423
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
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No, no, no. Simply no. This is not finite mathematics. This is simple 4th grade math.
When a company with 60 airplanes and 480 pilots gets 49 new airplanes over the course of 3 years movement and upgrades happen.
60 airplanes with 480 pilots is approx. 12 pilots per plane, or 6 F/Os and 6 Capts. (My numbers are not exact, you have management pilots on that list, LOA pilots, MED leave pilots, instructor pilots, CA and FO numbers are not dead split.. etc)
So 49 new airplanes = 588 give or take pilots to be hired. If you divide the 480 by 2 = 240 current F/Os at Mesa that have been sitting in the right seat before the 2013 hiring started. 588/2 = 294 CA needed.
294-240 = 54 Pilots hired 2013 and after to upgrade given that every current FO can and will upgrade, no one leaves, no one is on LOA, and all those pilots have upgrade MINS.
I'm being very CONSERVATIVE with these numbers. So if you are less conservative , you account for those that can't upgrade, people who leave, retirements, etc, I think its fair to add 75-100 people to the upgrade list. Therefore 129-154 new pilots (hired 2013 and forward) will be able to upgrade as all the aircraft arrive.
When a company with 60 airplanes and 480 pilots gets 49 new airplanes over the course of 3 years movement and upgrades happen.
60 airplanes with 480 pilots is approx. 12 pilots per plane, or 6 F/Os and 6 Capts. (My numbers are not exact, you have management pilots on that list, LOA pilots, MED leave pilots, instructor pilots, CA and FO numbers are not dead split.. etc)
So 49 new airplanes = 588 give or take pilots to be hired. If you divide the 480 by 2 = 240 current F/Os at Mesa that have been sitting in the right seat before the 2013 hiring started. 588/2 = 294 CA needed.
294-240 = 54 Pilots hired 2013 and after to upgrade given that every current FO can and will upgrade, no one leaves, no one is on LOA, and all those pilots have upgrade MINS.
I'm being very CONSERVATIVE with these numbers. So if you are less conservative , you account for those that can't upgrade, people who leave, retirements, etc, I think its fair to add 75-100 people to the upgrade list. Therefore 129-154 new pilots (hired 2013 and forward) will be able to upgrade as all the aircraft arrive.
As to the pilot compensation being driven by lowest bidder contracts that is only partly true. Another part to that compensation is young adults with SJS willing to work for absolutely nothing because they believe the regionals are a stepping stone to a major job, over the last decade this has simply not been the case. If no one accepted job offers at bottom of the barrel regionals it wouldn't matter what those companies bid on the flying due to the fact they couldn't staff it. Thus overall compensation would increase.
Time to calm down and take your blood pressure medicine before you medical out and miss out on your magical quick upgrade and major job.
10-28-2013 | 11:57 AM
#425
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
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I'm glad you're willing to guarantee those aircraft will be delivered with no reduction of older airframes AND guarantee Mesa will be able to find new hires to staff the new aircraft and thus create the captain vacancies necessary to upgrade pilots. You've got this all figured out don't you?
As to the pilot compensation being driven by lowest bidder contracts that is only partly true. Another part to that compensation is young adults with SJS willing to work for absolutely nothing because they believe the regionals are a stepping stone to a major job, over the last decade this has simply not been the case. If no one accepted job offers at bottom of the barrel regionals it wouldn't matter what those companies bid on the flying due to the fact they couldn't staff it. Thus overall compensation would increase.
Time to calm down and take your blood pressure medicine before you medical out and miss out on your magical quick upgrade and major job.
As to the pilot compensation being driven by lowest bidder contracts that is only partly true. Another part to that compensation is young adults with SJS willing to work for absolutely nothing because they believe the regionals are a stepping stone to a major job, over the last decade this has simply not been the case. If no one accepted job offers at bottom of the barrel regionals it wouldn't matter what those companies bid on the flying due to the fact they couldn't staff it. Thus overall compensation would increase.
Time to calm down and take your blood pressure medicine before you medical out and miss out on your magical quick upgrade and major job.
Absolutely true, well said!
10-28-2013 | 11:59 AM
#426
Line Holder
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
How long is it taking to hear back after applying? I put my app in last night.
10-28-2013 | 12:18 PM
#428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
No, no, no. Simply no. This is not finite mathematics. This is simple 4th grade math.
When a company with 60 airplanes and 480 pilots gets 49 new airplanes over the course of 3 years movement and upgrades happen.
60 airplanes with 480 pilots is approx. 12 pilots per plane, or 6 F/Os and 6 Capts. (My numbers are not exact, you have management pilots on that list, LOA pilots, MED leave pilots, instructor pilots, CA and FO numbers are not dead split.. etc)
So 49 new airplanes = 588 give or take pilots to be hired. If you divide the 480 by 2 = 240 current F/Os at Mesa that have been sitting in the right seat before the 2013 hiring started. 588/2 = 294 CA needed.
294-240 = 54 Pilots hired 2013 and after to upgrade given that every current FO can and will upgrade, no one leaves, no one is on LOA, and all those pilots have upgrade MINS.
I'm being very CONSERVATIVE with these numbers. So if you are less conservative , you account for those that can't upgrade, people who leave, retirements, etc, I think its fair to add 75-100 people to the upgrade list. Therefore 129-154 new pilots (hired 2013 and forward) will be able to upgrade as all the aircraft arrive.
When a company with 60 airplanes and 480 pilots gets 49 new airplanes over the course of 3 years movement and upgrades happen.
60 airplanes with 480 pilots is approx. 12 pilots per plane, or 6 F/Os and 6 Capts. (My numbers are not exact, you have management pilots on that list, LOA pilots, MED leave pilots, instructor pilots, CA and FO numbers are not dead split.. etc)
So 49 new airplanes = 588 give or take pilots to be hired. If you divide the 480 by 2 = 240 current F/Os at Mesa that have been sitting in the right seat before the 2013 hiring started. 588/2 = 294 CA needed.
294-240 = 54 Pilots hired 2013 and after to upgrade given that every current FO can and will upgrade, no one leaves, no one is on LOA, and all those pilots have upgrade MINS.
I'm being very CONSERVATIVE with these numbers. So if you are less conservative , you account for those that can't upgrade, people who leave, retirements, etc, I think its fair to add 75-100 people to the upgrade list. Therefore 129-154 new pilots (hired 2013 and forward) will be able to upgrade as all the aircraft arrive.
10-28-2013 | 02:10 PM
#430
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
From: 175 Left
I'm glad you're willing to guarantee those aircraft will be delivered with no reduction of older airframes AND guarantee Mesa will be able to find new hires to staff the new aircraft and thus create the captain vacancies necessary to upgrade pilots. You've got this all figured out don't you?
Time to calm down and take your blood pressure medicine before you medical out and miss out on your magical quick upgrade and major job.
Time to calm down and take your blood pressure medicine before you medical out and miss out on your magical quick upgrade and major job.
You know nothing about Mesa, you come on here spewing facts about things you're not educated on. You don't see me in the ExpressJet, GoJet, Compass, SkyWest Etc forums putting in my 2 cents. I am not educated on the internal working/happenings of those airlines.
"Magical" quick upgrade? What is magical about it? That adjective makes zero sense. There's math about what is happening here and what will continue to happen. Nothing magical.
Last edited by prior121; 10-28-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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