Mesa 3.0
09-22-2016, 03:50 AM
#831
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 232
JO kept saying don't look at pay rates, rather, look at what's in your bank after each paycheck. Let's compare an Endeavor 2nd year FO and a 3rd year Mesa captain:
$33 x 76 hours + retention bonus = $4,424.
$60 x 76 hours = $4,560.
Guess what? I have friends over there who make more as 2nd year FOs than me as a 3rd year Mesa captain on reserve. They get credited %150 for flying over min guarantee. A 3rd year captain at Endeavor can break six figures. Sure Mesa may have the most pilots making over $100k, but that's because of all the damn geezers in that retirement home PHX who have all been here 20+ years. Mesa as a "career airline" as JO put it? Why wait 20 years to break six figures when you can go to endeavor and make that in 3 years.
Endeavor doesn't have unicorns either. Not only that but their upgrades are just as quick as ours. They also have guaranteed interviews with Delta.
You wanna talk about growth and retention?! Endeavor has almost 1700 pilots now. Tell me how many pilots they had 3 years ago when Mesa started all their growth. We've been stuck at 1300 pilots for over a year now. We can't keep FOs from sticking around (with good reason) Who gives a **** how many 200s Endeavor has or if they have any parked someplace, Endeavors success should be looked at as a model for the regional industry. The way they're attracting pilots shows that it's a pay shortage and not a pilot shortage.
$33 x 76 hours + retention bonus = $4,424.
$60 x 76 hours = $4,560.
Guess what? I have friends over there who make more as 2nd year FOs than me as a 3rd year Mesa captain on reserve. They get credited %150 for flying over min guarantee. A 3rd year captain at Endeavor can break six figures. Sure Mesa may have the most pilots making over $100k, but that's because of all the damn geezers in that retirement home PHX who have all been here 20+ years. Mesa as a "career airline" as JO put it? Why wait 20 years to break six figures when you can go to endeavor and make that in 3 years.
Endeavor doesn't have unicorns either. Not only that but their upgrades are just as quick as ours. They also have guaranteed interviews with Delta.
You wanna talk about growth and retention?! Endeavor has almost 1700 pilots now. Tell me how many pilots they had 3 years ago when Mesa started all their growth. We've been stuck at 1300 pilots for over a year now. We can't keep FOs from sticking around (with good reason) Who gives a **** how many 200s Endeavor has or if they have any parked someplace, Endeavors success should be looked at as a model for the regional industry. The way they're attracting pilots shows that it's a pay shortage and not a pilot shortage.
09-22-2016, 04:56 AM
#832
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by airflight999
JO kept saying don't look at pay rates, rather, look at what's in your bank after each paycheck. Let's compare an Endeavor 2nd year FO and a 3rd year Mesa captain:
$33 x 76 hours + retention bonus = $4,424.
$60 x 76 hours = $4,560.
$33 x 76 hours + retention bonus = $4,424.
$60 x 76 hours = $4,560.
#1 MEDICAL INSURANCE, you need to drop the dollar figure when you are figuring out your take pay, if you plan on having medical insurance, by at least $10,000. That is going to be the difference you will pay to have medical insurance at Mesa. Everything charges, but the ones I researched are a fraction of what you pay at Mesa. Now, we have not even talked about using that Medical insurance, it's crappy coverage and if you ever really have to use it, you will learn the hard way, what it feels like to go into debt for medical bills. (Hey real young guys, think it don't mean nothing to you, Do you: Ride motorcycles, boat, swim, climb, or just live on this earth?, accidents happen, You got a Family? You want to leave them out there at the mercy of what ever charity you can find).
Mesa Dental and vision are fine. That's because traditionally those coverages have not had the acceleration in costs that medical has.
Some places offer slightly better vacation, but mostly they are the same across the board.
Let's list a few others, iPad, commuter hotels, KCM, Global. These are paid for by lots of other Regionals.
You looked at travel benifits? You think Mesa has the best? This has been a subject on every Conference call I ever heard at Mesa.
If you need the Commuter hotels, What's four of those worth a month, that some are offering? You gotta knock down that Mesa pay if you need them, since that affects what you put in the bank every month.
They are all Regional jobs. The all got a lot of suck. Wouldn't you like to take home more money for dealing with the suck?
But that's right, JO says you are smart and can do the math. He's making fun of you to your face. Think he can't do the math? He's making a fortune off those who will ***** themselves out. But hey, some people enjoy being used.... That's you, if you are staying at Mesa for not a hell of a good reason when the next best Regional is offering so much more and it ain't even the best.
Times change, this won't last forever, Maybe everyone else is gonna be going broke and Mesa is gonna come out on top. That would poetic justice for my past coworkers. It's a roll of the dice, but I wanta play in a game where I have more to win for putting the same sweat equity into it.
Bottom line, Money and insurance can affect your Quality of Life greatly, until you are making enough to pay for your basic needs, then after that you are just trying to get better stuff. If you are not happy with your Quality of Life, Why are you staying? You think there are gonna be magic changes?
09-22-2016, 04:57 AM
#833
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 73
Originally Posted by Duct Mon
All this talk of a mass exodus and no new recruits to fill classes is reminiscent of a year ago. Some of you are new enough to have not seen it but I have. I voted no to the last crap TA and so did 87% of us. We were almost 1000 pilots then and we are almost up to 1300. Still somehow with more new planes and still quoting fast upgrades JO was able to fill those classes to you lucky 54 and 55 numbers.
Stop filling classes. Stop picking up open time especially if the reserve grid is red. Stop accepting junior assignments.
JO is the Mesa addict and Mesa is his drug of choice. He's hooked on the growth of Mesa. Only way for him to kick this habit is for him to hit rock bottom. We can either sit back and keep feeding his habit or we bring rock bottom to him. Show him that no pilots equals no growth.
He claimed he doesn't want to follow in the footsteps of Republic. "Republic had their issues with hiring when they had the $40 per hour contract accepted." But what he failed to mention is Republic had rumors of bankruptcy which kept the classes empty, not the contract or the money.
Let me remind you. 1 year has passed since the BS TA and nothing has changed.
Stop filling classes. Stop picking up open time especially if the reserve grid is red. Stop accepting junior assignments.
JO is the Mesa addict and Mesa is his drug of choice. He's hooked on the growth of Mesa. Only way for him to kick this habit is for him to hit rock bottom. We can either sit back and keep feeding his habit or we bring rock bottom to him. Show him that no pilots equals no growth.
He claimed he doesn't want to follow in the footsteps of Republic. "Republic had their issues with hiring when they had the $40 per hour contract accepted." But what he failed to mention is Republic had rumors of bankruptcy which kept the classes empty, not the contract or the money.
Let me remind you. 1 year has passed since the BS TA and nothing has changed.
09-22-2016, 05:50 AM
#834
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 79
I really have enjoyed working at Mesa but this news is very disappointing. In 2014 Mesa was the 4th lowest paying regional and in 2016 the lowest with no bonuses or company subsidized benefits. Many of the current hires are under an employment contract with large penalties for early resignation. Once this period passes I'm not sure how Mesa can resemble anything of its current size and capacity in the industry.
09-22-2016, 06:16 AM
#835
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by cbrittle
Many of the current hires are under an employment contract with large penalties for early resignation. Once this period passes I'm not sure how Mesa can resemble anything of its current size and capacity in the industry.
I am thousands and thousands of dollars ahead.
Also, if you think you wanta leave, why wait?
This industry is built on Senority, Senority, Senority. If you are waiting to leave because you think you might save a few bucks,
What's it worth to you down the line?
Senority allows you to have choice on equipment, bidding, bases, etc... Every month you stay somewhere and don't go,is 30-60 in front of you, if you do ever decide to move on.
A downturn will come someday, things change, would you not want to be closer to the top of your list than the bottom, at any time for any situation?
If Senority at Mesa is getting people what they want, by all means stay. Yet from what I see Mesa has historically been at the bottom of pay and compensation since day one and I saw no great reason over and beyond that for staying when I worked there.
Remember, "Past Performance is indicative of Future Performance"
Mesa will offer a few crumbs soon, they will have to. Hopefully those of us who leave are helping those left behind. JO made it quite clear he's happy with the way things are going, so he will always offer the least he can and hold out the longest. He's not talking about how close he is to receiving Food Stamps and he never will. His concern is his next Ferarri.
New Guys need to get smart real quick and evaluate the situation.
Either pay what you owe or don't. I keep a copy of my W-2 from last year and a few pay stubs. I take took them on interviews with me.
When asked, "Why are you leaving", I state, Great People, Great place, but take a look at these.
Not one, one, has ever said they couldn't understand why I am interviewing with them.
09-22-2016, 06:20 AM
#836
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 90
Good summary
Originally Posted by Rob12345
When you compare pay, there are also several other things you can factor in that affects the bottom line of what you put in the bank.
#1 MEDICAL INSURANCE, you need to drop the dollar figure when you are figuring out your take pay, if you plan on having medical insurance, by at least $10,000. That is going to be the difference you will pay to have medical insurance at Mesa. Everything charges, but the ones I researched are a fraction of what you pay at Mesa. Now, we have not even talked about using that Medical insurance, it's crappy coverage and if you ever really have to use it, you will learn the hard way, what it feels like to go into debt for medical bills. (Hey real young guys, think it don't mean nothing to you, Do you: Ride motorcycles, boat, swim, climb, or just live on this earth?, accidents happen, You got a Family? You want to leave them out there at the mercy of what ever charity you can find).
Mesa Dental and vision are fine. That's because traditionally those coverages have not had the acceleration in costs that medical has.
Some places offer slightly better vacation, but mostly they are the same across the board.
Let's list a few others, iPad, commuter hotels, KCM, Global. These are paid for by lots of other Regionals.
You looked at travel benifits? You think Mesa has the best? This has been a subject on every Conference call I ever heard at Mesa.
If you need the Commuter hotels, What's four of those worth a month, that some are offering? You gotta knock down that Mesa pay if you need them, since that affects what you put in the bank every month.
They are all Regional jobs. The all got a lot of suck. Wouldn't you like to take home more money for dealing with the suck?
But that's right, JO says you are smart and can do the math. He's making fun of you to your face. Think he can't do the math? He's making a fortune off those who will ***** themselves out. But hey, some people enjoy being used.... That's you, if you are staying at Mesa for not a hell of a good reason when the next best Regional is offering so much more and it ain't even the best.
Times change, this won't last forever, Maybe everyone else is gonna be going broke and Mesa is gonna come out on top. That would poetic justice for my past coworkers. It's a roll of the dice, but I wanta play in a game where I have more to win for putting the same sweat equity into it.
Bottom line, Money and insurance can affect your Quality of Life greatly, until you are making enough to pay for your basic needs, then after that you are just trying to get better stuff. If you are not happy with your Quality of Life, Why are you staying? You think there are gonna be magic changes?
#1 MEDICAL INSURANCE, you need to drop the dollar figure when you are figuring out your take pay, if you plan on having medical insurance, by at least $10,000. That is going to be the difference you will pay to have medical insurance at Mesa. Everything charges, but the ones I researched are a fraction of what you pay at Mesa. Now, we have not even talked about using that Medical insurance, it's crappy coverage and if you ever really have to use it, you will learn the hard way, what it feels like to go into debt for medical bills. (Hey real young guys, think it don't mean nothing to you, Do you: Ride motorcycles, boat, swim, climb, or just live on this earth?, accidents happen, You got a Family? You want to leave them out there at the mercy of what ever charity you can find).
Mesa Dental and vision are fine. That's because traditionally those coverages have not had the acceleration in costs that medical has.
Some places offer slightly better vacation, but mostly they are the same across the board.
Let's list a few others, iPad, commuter hotels, KCM, Global. These are paid for by lots of other Regionals.
You looked at travel benifits? You think Mesa has the best? This has been a subject on every Conference call I ever heard at Mesa.
If you need the Commuter hotels, What's four of those worth a month, that some are offering? You gotta knock down that Mesa pay if you need them, since that affects what you put in the bank every month.
They are all Regional jobs. The all got a lot of suck. Wouldn't you like to take home more money for dealing with the suck?
But that's right, JO says you are smart and can do the math. He's making fun of you to your face. Think he can't do the math? He's making a fortune off those who will ***** themselves out. But hey, some people enjoy being used.... That's you, if you are staying at Mesa for not a hell of a good reason when the next best Regional is offering so much more and it ain't even the best.
Times change, this won't last forever, Maybe everyone else is gonna be going broke and Mesa is gonna come out on top. That would poetic justice for my past coworkers. It's a roll of the dice, but I wanta play in a game where I have more to win for putting the same sweat equity into it.
Bottom line, Money and insurance can affect your Quality of Life greatly, until you are making enough to pay for your basic needs, then after that you are just trying to get better stuff. If you are not happy with your Quality of Life, Why are you staying? You think there are gonna be magic changes?
09-22-2016, 06:40 AM
#837
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by 12fly
Good summary. However we are quite below standard on our vacation also. Many companies allow automatic drop with pay of any days touching your vacation and no company that I know of will penalize you with deductions to your min 11 days off for taking vacations. Two days penalty for every week taken per month! Many Mesa pilots are not even aware of this penalty provision in our glorious contract.
That is where I see the value of this Forum. It's such a great educational resource.
09-22-2016, 08:00 AM
#839
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: ????
Posts: 579
Last night when we arrived in HOU I was doing the postflight and I was approached by an Envoy ramper. Conversation went like this.
Ramper: "Hey, why don't you come to work for us?"
Me: "Who is "us"?"
Ramper: "American Airlines."
Me: "doing what?"
Ramper: "Pilot."
At that point he attempted to hand me an Envoy business card with a telephone number hand written on it.
Me: "you're not American. You're Envoy. I'd love to fly for AA but I don't think you can help me."
I told him to keep his card. Now I wish I would've taken it.
Ramper: "Hey, why don't you come to work for us?"
Me: "Who is "us"?"
Ramper: "American Airlines."
Me: "doing what?"
Ramper: "Pilot."
At that point he attempted to hand me an Envoy business card with a telephone number hand written on it.
Me: "you're not American. You're Envoy. I'd love to fly for AA but I don't think you can help me."
I told him to keep his card. Now I wish I would've taken it.
09-22-2016, 08:02 AM
#840
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 132
The only way substantial changes to YV are going to happen is if the pilots vote with their feet. As long as JO can staff the flights then he is happy. If the money is worth it then got to any of the other regionals/LCCs
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