Harvey

Looks like you guys basically figured out what I was trying to say.

Hacker, don’t know if the situation you described above is really possible at SWA so UAL has that on us.

It seems like it’s only a minority of people at SWA are looking for min rigged trips with long overnights on the beaches. Plenty of complaints already that the HI lines aren’t paying enough.

rickair7777

The term Productivity generally seems to imply working hard, and getting a lot of credit in a short period.

Sometimes, or often, I myself prefer a little less productivity balanced out with some soft time.

The advantage of productivity is the company likes it, you get paid, and you get commensurate days off. So if you have it, you can depend on it. It only becomes a problem if high daily block creates pilot time out situations any time the wind blows.

If you can get paid days off/soft time, that's better from the pilot perspective, but the company won't like it and will be gunning to "fix" that sort of situation. Also it's probably dependent on seniority and possibly creative bidding and contract loopholes.

deus ex machina

A. If you are management you want labor to work the most (highly productive) for the least amount of pay.

B. If you are labor you want to work the least (highly unproductive) for the most amount of pay.

If you are a worker (pilot) and B bothers you, you are the problem.

tomgoodman

If you paint with such a broad brush, YOU are a problem.

XHooker

UAL here. Personally, I think it comes down to your tolerance for risk. I admittedly don’t pay attention to the financial projections for either carrier, but my impression is that SWA is practically indestructible, UAL not so much. I don’t mean UAL will ever go away, just that it won’t weather the inevitable downturn as well as SWA. Having said that, with a mil retirement in my pocket, I’d take the (perceived) greater reward of UAL over the (perceived) lower risk of SWA. To keep productivity in perspective, I’ve had months at UAL with 19 days off (70 hours, but you can pick up trips averaging close to six hours a day for more pay if you want) on a narrow body or 21 days off (90 hours, pre FAR 117) on a wide body. I doubt you’d regret choosing either company.

Dodo

It seems this guy is the problem.
I got CJOs from UAL and SWA. I chose...neither. I know, a real tough life, since I chose from 5 suitors.

SWA is an outstanding place to work, from what my SWA bubbas tell me. My UAL bubbas tell me it's "a good job."
All that said, if you're okay with the AM/PM shifts at SWA (I wasn't) they offer great opportunities for someone who wants to work hard when they work and some flexibility to swap/drop trips, from my understanding.
UAL likely has flexibility to offer as well.

I'd go with the one that you don't have to commute to, and if all is equal there, the one that has the best opportunity to climb seniority. (UAL)


Side note. Don't ever tell the people department at SWA that you have multiple offers. For some reason, that rubs them the wrong way.

Adlerdriver

Productivity from a pilot's perspective has nothing to do with "working hard". It's about pay per day of work - whatever that work may be. There are pilots who have relatively easy work days and low block hours yet higher productivity (for them) in terms of pay. My point is that one doesn't always have to accept a bust ass day of work to find what is considered a "productive" trip from a pilot's perspective.

Take a FedEx 777 RFO trip. Leave Monday night at 1800 and deadhead to HKG, 29 hours off and work back to MEM arriving Thur night just past midnight. 3.25 days (78 hours) gone from base for 32.5 hours of pay. So, 10 hours of pay per day for one revenue leg with a block of 14:10. That's a pretty darn productive trip from a pilot's perspective but was it "hard work"?

Work rules require a 12-hour layover in DFW on the way to HKG but one could leave Tue morning, do it all in one day and shave 12 hours off the whole process. But, we'll stick with the schedule for this discussion.

Contrast that with a series of 757 trips over the same 3.25 day period.
Leave MEM Tue am 0200 MEM-TLH-RSW arrive 0600, 14 hours off
Tues pm 2140, RSW-MEM, arr midnight (3-hr sit), MEM-TLH-RSW, 14 off
Wed night RSW-MEM (3-hr sit), MEM-TLH-RSW, 14 hours off
Thur night RSW-MEM arrive 2300
Just under 3 days (70 hours) gone from base for 18.1 hours of pay.
15:03 Block, 9 legs/landings

Basically 6 hours of pay per day for roughly the same footprint as the 777 trip for a little over half the pay. Pretty darn productive from the company's perspective and pretty hard work from the pilot's perspective - but did that hard work end up resulting in productivity for the pilot?

deus ex machina

Exactly... there is juice to drink there.... so if you are a SWA guy and never been anywhere else, you will be hard biased... even though you really have no idea the rest of the industry...

It's like that guy that is p-whipped by his wife... she is the greatest... the hottest... there is no better... And you aren't going to tell him any different..

Dodo

Who are you married to?
Full disclosure and all...

deus ex machina

Like Ali.. I am married to the greatest...