ewrbasedpilot

My friend you are wrong. While the medical insurance doesn't kick in till your 7th month at CAL, the QOL is ten times better. I don't know of many pilots who'd rather be in hellhole Iraq, than on the beach drinking Daquiri's in St Maarten. Oh, I'm sure there's a few, but not many. Most of the newhires on the B737 in EWR are on reserve for all of 2-3 WEEKS. They are holding 15 day off lines in less than a month. Wow.........pretty tough, eh? Many of the military reserve pilots I fly with are fed up with this whole war shenanigin stuff, and are bailing out left and right. Get out, and join the Reseves as a CAP (Civil Air Patrol) Liaison, or AF Academy Liaison. You'll still get a pension at 60, and not worry about being deployed 90% of the time while your kids are growing up without you. There's a reason so many pilots are bailing, and QOL is something the President, Congress, nor many of our senior leaders will ever figure out is the problem. They think living in a tent without a bathroom 5000 miles from home months on end is a lot of fun and worth an extra $500 in your paycheck. They are WRONG......... JMHO

Hacker15e

I was just saying CAL as a rhetorical example. I wasn't looking to go point-for-point on what it's really like your first year.

My point was, there is suck-age on both sides of the fence. You're right...the QOL probably IS better, depending on how you look at it. My post was simply saying that the grass is not necessarily greener.

I worked with numerous Reservists at my last job who flew for Delta, FedEx, JetBlue, and American, and I listened intently to what they said at the bar about all aspects of the airline lifestyle. I read up as much as I can, and participate in the forums here -- I feel like I have a decent handle on how things are at the Majors versus how things are on active duty for a fighter guy. I recognize that there are low points staying on active duty (hell, I'm writing this post while sitting at Bagram in my 4th month of deployment). I also recognize that there are things that staying in offer me that the gig at the Majors can't. For me, the indicators are pointing slightly toward staying in...so, that's what I'm doing.

I think and re-think the decision I've made every day, and the answer that's best for me, today, is to stay in. Maybe I'll regret that decision, maybe not. Again, if it were 10 years ago and the pay and work rules were different, it would be a no-brainer for me. I'd all ready be a civilian and hopefully working for a Major. I want to be sitting on the beach at SXM as well someday.

If getting out was right for you, then great! I don't second guess anybody's decision to stay or go. The fact of the matter is that I hope to fly with some of you when I try and get to the Majors in the future.

MoosePileit

Minor thread redirect/unhijack. Retention rates- sounds like the mid 90s. STOP LOSS happened in that time period, that was my point for a consideration. No new history, just repetitions. Plenty of clowns are also history buffs, or at least have heard or seen the cycles.

One thing to consider is also age 65. The old math based on age 60 rules that showed you were ALWAYS better to separate and goto the airlines by a certain age rather than stick it 20 years for an active duty retirement won't apply, I think. W/ age 65 allowing you to still slog longer in the airlines after a retirement around age 43 from the military- it may actually pay off to retire from AD- anyone figure that out? I had pondered it only long enough to realize it was time to go for me, regardless of dollars.

Second minor issue is we're in the 2 year gap where the AF went from 8 year SUPT commitments to 10 year indentured servitude (Congress calls it that)- there should be a downturn in those able to get out, and the SUPT machine was just getting on speed also back when the 10 years started- there are lots of AD AF folks w/ a few years left on their committment and in front of them are those that took the bonus to stay in or have either just separated at the end of 8 years or left on some 12 step program.

That AFTimes article was just about the retention bonus takers and doesn't actually paint an accurate picture.

Either way, it'll be an interesting ride- just be on the one that suits you better.

Tanker-driver

Hacker, just curious as to how QOL in the fighter world is vs the heavy world. The reason I ask is that most fighter guys I know are all about staying in, while that's definitely not the case in the heavy world. How often do you guys deploy? How does the AEF concept work out for you guys? How many of you go to a predator or ALO assignment after your first tour, and how many of THOSE guys eventually return to a fighter cockpit?

Gunhog

Within the Fighter community the deployment rate and QOL is vastly different. From an A-10 perspective we are gone all the time with BRAC cutting squadrons and still one squadron in one or both theaters constantly. But compare that with an F-15C squadron that does Noble Eagle stateside for their AEF and those guys are screaming to get deployed just to get some action. I think the F-16 guys are somewhere in between. Of note only 49 % of A-10 pilots took the bonus last year compared to ~65% for other fighters if I remember the article correctly.

I'm facing a 6 month non-flying deployment in Dec which happens to be the end of my 8 year commitment. That would be my 4th deployment. WWYD?

liftr92

Sounds like the early/mid 80's, mid/late 90s and its happening again. When provided with options more folks are going to punch and see what the other side is like. As far as stoploss, highly unlikey you will see it as it puts a real bend on end of year authorized personnel numers - as a stoplossee (Detained 6 1/2 months passed my separation date) the bosses kept telling us we would not be released and that we were clowns for punching in spring of 2002, come summer and USAFs request for additional 10000 bodies beyond authorization gets shot down and BAM! we're released and oh by the way please be completely separated by Sep 30. Bottom line is if you like what you're doing - stay in take the bonus and lead from the front when your time to do so comes, don't like - quit, still want to log time on the governments dollar and fly the occaisional mission - find a guard or reserve job and the most important thing - Don't look back and second guess. As for me it all worked out and that six months with a pregnant wife, one small child and no health insurance just made me that much stronger. fwiw

L'il J.Seinfeld

Wow. ANother great post on APC. This guy hit the nail on the head. QOL is the number 1 reason to leave AD. I never realized how much my life sucked in the USAF until I got out. I knew it was bad, but it really rang true when I got hired at UPS. The money ain't bad--I'll make 150k as a 3d year FO while flying less than 250 hours, but the time off, establishing roots in the communuity, and enjoying life are priceless.

L'il J.Seinfeld

While the USAF continues to draw down and pay people to leave they are sending out feelers for pilot Reservists to come back on AD in staff tours. I got an email today wanting me to fill out a survey about what the USAF would have to do in order to get me to come back on AD.

Sputnik

I for one am dying to know what you wrote. Could have a lot of fun with that one.

Hacker15e

In the F-15E community, the majority of guys will deploy once or twice on their first tour for 120 days each. Most of those guys will do an ALFA tours as their 2nd tour, and then come back to the jet on their 3rd tour.

I was a T-38 IP on my ALFA tour.

I've been very fortunate, apparently. I've been on active duty 12 years and deployed overseas a grand total of twice.

I'm guessing that the view from guys who have only been flying on AD after 9/11, and after the deployment pace picked up in '03, see things a lot differently than I do.