SVTCobra

Guess your not use to someone disagreeing with you.
BTW.. I was not whining, just voicing my opinion.If you don't care for my opinion then too bad, get over it!!!.. Enjoy your day

USMCFLYR

Single seat CRM is based on utilizing tools outside your cockpit and well as inside (meaning even a two cockpit situation where you are training as single seat). Your flight members, your command/control, ATC, and even other aircraft outside of your flight all can contribute (on the tactical level it could even be the coordination while performing CAS or SAR for example). It has ben a long hard sell to some in the single seat world but it has been integrated pretty well into the system and the newbies *this term refers to even seasoned people now) have been ingrained with the idea from day one in the training programs.

It has been a transition for me, but I'd say MOST of it has been a transition to the *easier* side of the road because it has been task shedding rather than the transition from multi-crewed to single pilot mindset where all of the sudden you are responsibile for everything.

USMCFLYR

FDXLAG

Like the hiring criteria at fedex, the definition whining is in the eyes of the beholder and extremely arbitrary. Plenty of people are thickheaded and disagree with me, quite used to it.

SUX4U

Donny, you're out of your element! How you can come off thinking your experience bouncing around the east coast in an ERJ makes you a more suitable pilot then those from fighter back grounds is absurd! You come off thinking because you had some major airlines paint job on your RJ and a few passengers in the back (all wondering who the hell this mesa airlines is anyways) during a flap fail or something of that nature makes your experience more desireable and valid... get real! I really don't think you grasp what the guys in single seat jets do in the air. For the record, I never flew single seat jets. From my friends that have, I feel I am able to form an educated oppinion that their experience is indeed valid and a hell of a lot more demanding then what you or I have experienced in the thousands of hours of mundane 121 flying. I just think maybe alittle bit of respect and gratitude should be given to the guys that put their ass on the line for our country instead of making them out to be some favored group that is lacking "experience".

MaydayMark

I hate to go here as English was never one of my strongest skills ...

Is that the same as, "I guess you're not used to someone disagreeing with you?"

Maybe that's why FDX requires a colledge degree?

Adlerdriver

If airlines continued to hire fighter pilots even though the majority struggle to integrate into a crew aircraft, then I think you would have a point. The fact is they don’t. And please leave out the anecdotal story about a tool from the 5% who got fired or just made your last trip miserable. I get it, they’re out there, but we all know they’re the exception just like any other member of the “5 club”.

The mistake you made was attempting to equate a single pilot operation flying from A to B in a turbo-prop to flying a fighter. That’s easy to do without perspective. Those who have no fighter experience are at a disadvantage (through no fault of your own) in this discussion. We’ve seen both sides of this and you have not. Basically this whole discussion is about CRM, which, believe it or not, is the one of the basics to success in fighters.

Obviously, a single seat fighter pilot has no “multi-crew” flight experience if you’re going to stick the purest sense of the term. He’s never sat 2-3 feet to the left or right of another pilot in the same aircraft and flown it from A to B using a team effort.

That crew’s team effort involves: mutual understanding of procedures, delegation of duties and responsibilities, communication (usually verbal), seeking inputs from others to arrive at mutually understood decisions and mutual interpretation/discussion of various inputs from inside and outside the aircraft, just to name a few.

It seems to me, that’s really the crux of your concern. How much experience does a single seat fighter pilot have that’s equivalent to leading a team effort of two to four pilots (and possibly a group of flight attendants) during the flight planning, execution and debrief of a typical airline/cargo flight.

My answer would be more than you could possibly imagine. Fighter pilots never operate alone. The most common fighting element is a 4-ship made of two paired elements. There is an overall 4-ship lead and his deputy leads the second element should they split into pairs. Planning, execution and debrief of their mission involves every aspect of team work I listed above in addition to many others. The only difference between the team work in a crew environment and that in a fighter, is that the communication part of it, once airborne, is occurring via radio, data-link and other on-board systems. That communication is also not limited to the 4 pilots directly involved. We’re using inputs from AWACs and other surveillance assets, other fighters, strike/bomber aircraft and other support assets like SAM suppression and jammers. You might equate these external resources to company dispatchers, weather, medical or maintenance personnel available via ACARS should the need arise.

If I failed to be a good resource and use my resources effectively as a fighter pilot leading my team, I would have experienced failure just like you would if you did that same thing in your aircraft. No one is successful as an airline/freighter pilot without having some teamwork skills. Every successful fighter pilot (except for the 5%) breaking into the 121 world knows that as well and most likely brings a pretty good skill set to the game.

USMCFLYR

As already explained - it isn't a break. Do you have a problem with a military pilot and a civilian pilot being on a level playing field? I don't care which way you want to log it but if you as a civvie guy want to log ONLY takeoff to landing then so be it. The 0.2 conversion doesn't account for NEARLY the time I spent on the ground (in control of an aircraft with the intent of flying). All the time waiting in marshall for flight members, waiting at the hold short during a bounce period, in the hot pits, etc....

Congrats for having so many friends and family members serving, but exactly what kind of credit do you want?

Back to the intent of the thread - it seems that the most important block to check for any airline is the TPIC block (whatever the minimum might be) and PIC in a trubine airplane meets that requirement - at least as far as getting the application filled out completely. After that I guess it falls into the hands of the hiring department and it sounds like many on here believe the FedEx (and some others) have lost their way in the hunt for successful line pilots (ref. nitefrater's post)

USMCFLYR

OrionFE

Amen...brother ben!

SVTCobra

Ahhhh.. Nothing like dealing with type A personalities that get their blood pressure boiling from someone who voices their opinion..

I would like to thank the grammar or is it grammer police on this thread. Also the infamous Mesa bashers that I dealt with for 12 yrs. That story never seems to change.And last but not least, the guys that put their lives on the line defending the sky... I get it, I got it,the whole country get's it. I think that has been beaten to death... Looks like we agree that we disagree

dckozak

Unless you can hit 'em with a map case it ant CRM.

Copilot slaps Pilot while Flight Engineer watches - YouTube