TweetIP

So here's a couple of big questions for those of you who have gone before me. Here's my situation:

I'm a pointy nose type that is really fed up. I am not the most charismatic type of person and am also pretty soft spoken. I have been able to rock my previous assignments but in my current squadron there are a lot of strong personalities and I feel like I've been kicked to the gutter because of it. I don't even come close to making RAP every month unless I start kicking and screaming and pointing out to people that I am on the schedule to fly once every 2-3 weeks and then they go, "Oh, no way, how did that happen?" They spend about a week trying to fly me a little and then back to the one flight every 2-3 weeks. I've gotten to the point that I have a dark cloud over my head and completely hate my job because I feel like I have to beg just to do what I have been trained to do. My ground job is also so small that I could get away with doing maybe 1-2 hours of it a week and would be probably spending more time on it than is needed even with that. (FWIW, I am new to this squadron and understand that being a new guy means that I have to work my way up a little but this seems really ridiculous.)

Also, I look all around me and everyone is unhappy and just can't wait to get out. It seems like every few weeks to a month someone new drops the bomb and lets everyone know that they are getting out. People aren't happy and I am one of them. Here are a couple of questions:

-For those who have been in my situation would you say that I really have been kicked to the curb? (It sure looks that way to me.)

-I am thinking about getting out and trying for the airlines but am really confused by the whole airline thing. My friends who fly for the airlines are telling me to stay in the AF and suck it up because they think it is better than going to the airlines. I am not sure that I agree. I am tired of competing for peanuts in the AF. Would do you say?

-I know this is a huge question but is it really going to be that good of a time to go to the airlines? I see lots of evidence that there is going to be a big hiring boom, but then just as much that the hiring boom is b.s. What say ye?

Anyway, please feel free to throw spears too because I am looking for genuine and honest advice!

HercDriver130

How many years do you have in?

Yes, there will probably be hiring over the next 10 years, the variable is exactly when they will start hiring some say...2012...some say 2014....some might even argue for late as 2015. Mainly because company plans are always changing... most of the mainline/legacy carriers out there today have slowly pulled back capacity over the past few years to increase profits.... it may or may not continue... how much and how fast will effect how many are hired. Then of course there are questions of where are you willing to live..and who are you willing to work for. NOthing is a sure thing, and the grass isnt always greener so to speak. I am sure you will have plenty more opinions come in.

For me personally...if I had 13 plus years in.. I would probably stay....then look at outside aviation. Less than that I would look at ANG or RSV units and then seriously about getting out.

HuggyU2

Do you really believe that you have two choices:
1. Stay in
2. Get out and fly for the airlines

Is that all you think you are qualified to do?
If you answer "yes",... then go to the woodshed and re-evaluate.

hawgdriver

I have been in your same shoes. For me, active duty AF and constantly competing for my next assignment while watching guys get an IP upgrade handed to them because they want to go to WIC/become a CC is not what I want to continue to do for my adult life. I have 1.5 years left and I've decided to go to the reserves and try to get an airline job. I love the AF, serving my country and flying the Hawg. But I don't like moving every three years and all the BS I mentioned above. For me this is going to allow me to continue to fly jets, deploy with my bro's serve my country and never have to move again unless I make that decision. One thing I am giving up is the security of always having a paycheck and a guaranteed retirement. I'm willing to make that sacrifice. Everyone is different and you need to ask yourself what you want out of your life. The airlines are always up and down and you will see many different opinions on this forum. If you can get out in the next couple years this is probably a good time to do so. There will be a lot of hiring in the next few years and the airlines like military guys.

My advise to you is: Get your ATP, keep following the forums and continue to educate yourself on the airline industry, start looking for a reserve or guard job and don't tell anyone at work what your plans are until you're ready to jump ship. I wouldn't completely cut ties with the AF and go to the airlines without a guard/reserve job. You'll miss the flying and all your bro's. It will also subsidize your first few years at the airlines with the low pay. It you completely hate the airlines, you'll have opportunities to possibly go full time if you need it. Good luck

zach141

TweetIP:
Disclaimer: Notwithstanding 1,000 hrs in the T-38, I'm not "pointy-nose". I can't know the inner workings of a fighter unit, so my comments/questions are generic.

Have you had this conversation with your flight commander or ops officer?

Is your squadron over-manned, or under-provided with flight training hours?

Are you faced with a nucleus of folks that deployed together a lot? If the schedule is limited, then the scheduler is always gonna take care of himself and his buds.

Is there a niche you could fill that is valuable to them? For example, I was in airlift. Those squadrons had qualifications like nuclear airlift, airdrop, and special ops that made certain pilots "special".

Like I said, I was never a fighter guy. But, I can clearly remember the feeling of being "new". It was my third assignment. I'd done Desert Storm airlift, and followed that with 3+ years in the -38. I stroll into my new airlift squadron, I'm a middle-to-senior O-3, and I can just sort of tell--I'm really not particularly wanted or needed. I felt that way the whole three years at that assignment. Perhaps that's just how it is, sometimes.

reCALcitrant

No risk, no reward. Welcome to every AD AF squadron I know right now. Miserable. If you have less than 5 left, stick it out. More than 5'ish, go to a reserve unit (feel free to pm me about that) to get your retirement and get on with an airline. You'll never regret the feeling of taking a leap. You are educated, skilled, and work hard. You'll land on your feet.

tye05

TweetIP,

The grass is not greener on the other side of the fence, just different. If you are close to retirement stick it out. I transitioned after 20 years and somedays I still wish I was back in the USAF. A few months ago I ran into my 38 IP, he was a FAIP who got out after a tour at Bitburg. He told me straight up he wished he had stayed in. I fly with more than a handful of ex-USAF guys who got out early and are now trying to get back into the guard to finish out.

The Guard or Reserve are a great option. However, you need to look really hard at how airline basing and guard/reserve unit location fit together. My advise is to live at one, with a short/easy commute to the other. Otherwise you will spend all your time traveling to your other job, and your quality of life will suck.

Do your research!!! You know all about your side of the fence, seek out the opinions of those you trust on the other side.

Cheers T5

webecheck

No offense, but I find this hard to believe. A squadron, be it the DO or chf of scheduling, cant just choose to fly someone at less than RAP and have it be no big deal. Just to test the waters, be available for 2 months straight. No leave or other reasons for them to say they couldnt fly you. Once you dont make rap the first month, I bet it gets sorted out. Have the data to compare your total RAP sorties to that of the rest of the squadron. If your complaint is legit, it will get noticed.

Fighter squadron life sucks. Its just the way it is, and its not going to get better. I think being a Lt or Capt in a ftr sq is the worst quality of life one could possibly have. I can attest that its gets better as an ADO, and if you find yourself attached one day it should be better too....depending on your idea of what is a good QOL. For me, having reasonable work days and not a slave to the constant last minute unnecessary waste of time pilot meeting that starts at 1730 or 1800 where the topic of the day is how we're all f'ing up cuz some dbag cold soaked a pod.

I'm attached and have a fairly normal work week. I fly at BMC, and am happy to do so. When I think back to my younger ftr days I can tell you it was way worse than life now. So, hang in there dude, or just get out.

Best advice I can give you, and this will have an immediate impact on your attitude and thoughts of life in the AF starting tomorrow: Quit trying to compete to be the next #1 strat. Do the best you can with a reasonable amount of effort and just let the chips fall where they may. Do you even want to be a General one day? If not, why freaking stress about not being the #1 push. Work a reasonably expected amount and then split for some hobbies. Odds are you wont be the last push on base, those are usually reserved for dudes who consistently dork stuff up, but you'll be immensely happier because you're doing some stuff for yourself for a change. Even if you are vml'd to a non ftr assignment, its not that big of a deal. You may even find you like it so much it convinces you to stay in. I know of countless dudes who enjoyed their alo, upt, etc tour more than their first ftr tour.

If you went the ftr track, a 20 year career is definitely a marathon not a sprint. All the sprinters split once the UPT adsc is up, those who stay are the marathoners and wanna be Generals. If one of your goals is to be a General, then you're just going to have to eat that $h1t sandwich and quit complaining. If you just want to serve, maybe make Major or LC, and be a good American who offers 20 years to his country, quit stressing about being top dog.

As long as the pension remains the same, those that stick it out to 20 and then go airlines/civy job will be happy they did imo. Thats my plan anyway. Then again, i'm eating a 365 next year cuz of that plan.

All imho.

hvydvr

This.

Perfection is very time consuming. Remember the old Avis commercial that said something like "Why try harder? We're #1"? My philosophy is that I'm #3 and I didn't try at all. As a bubba who did 21 yrs AD and is now flying cargo, I can tell you that life is good indeed on the other side. Good luck on your decision and research.

thurberm

Stay in if you're within 2 assignments of 20 years. Believe me, your 20 years of military flying won't means dick in the civilian world, and your retirement pay will be the only thing that keeps your family off the dole even WITH the pay of a first-year FO ANYWHERE. Living that dream right now...

If you're not close to 20, get on with the Guard/Reserve unit of your choice. Every guy I know who still flies and did that is way better off than guys like me who retired and then tried to find a flying job. Lots of folks I know seem to have no trouble popping back on active duty when they get close to a reserve component retirement so that they CAN retire from active duty and get paid immediately.

Lastly, if you're serious about flying post-military, no matter how far along you are, stop flying fighters and get an assignment or two (and the corresponding type rating) in ANYTHING that's flown in the civilian world. Apply to the 89th and get a type in any of the bizjets they fly. Go black and get a 757 type. Hell, even AFSOC for a King Air or Pilatus type will be more valuable to you post-military than anything you can do in any fighter aircraft. In a civilian Job market flooded with unemployed and under-employed pilots who are already WAY ahead of you with commonly desired type ratings and time in them, as well as employers who want astronaut qualifications to pay you convenience store clerk wages--and are increasingly unwilling to pay to train you themselves--you'll need the leg up.

Of course, if you know the chief pilot at Google or have any other such connection and can use it, that advice is null and void. If you're just another retiring schmo who has no connections who can help you, then you'll be just another very small fish in a very large ocean. I wish I'd known some of this before I retired...