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AV-8B type looking for future advice

Old 06-28-2013, 05:45 PM
  #11  
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I just retired out of Kingsville, flying the Goshawk, though I was a mainly an intermediate IP being a former COD driver. You will build flight time down here, you will get 1000 hours in three years (I was a wing guy and got 675 hours in 2 years and I flew less than the squadron guys), barring being med down, personal issues, etc. In addition, being a Harrier guy, if you want to become an air to air guy, you will. But be careful what you wish for, once you are a BFM guy, you stay one. Three BFM hops a day gets rough to be rough on the body and spirit I hear.

I am employed with a Regional right now (AWAC) and if it weren't for my retirement pay, I would not go the Regional route at all. I don't blame you about worrying about the pay cut as the money is awful. It's almost an insult for experienced pilots (I mean both civilian and military) but it is what it is.
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:46 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by deadstick35 View Post
Going to a training slot is good for the hours. Would you be able go to a T-44 unit? I'm just thinking about the ME turbine time. Serious question for others, wouldn't he have a hard time getting a non-RJ like a pilot who has 1000 TPIC in a Caravan and little/no multi time?
I've never heard of a strike/fighter guy going to the multi-engine pipeline to instruct.

I'm 100% the USAF probably does things different, but the Hornet community did have slightly different syllabuses for the different communities coming through transition training. If you were a former TomCat guy then the FTR syllabus was shortened and if you were a A-6 guy then obviously the strike syllabus was shortened.

Bunk -
In addition, being a Harrier guy, if you want to become an air to air guy, you will. But be careful what you wish for, once you are a BFM guy, you stay one. Three BFM hops a day gets rough to be rough on the body and spirit I hear.
Come on now!
Actually I enjoyed the strike and BFM and 2v2 stuff much more than other aspects of the FTR syllabus, but BFM hops are pretty much cream of the crop. I will say though - and only experiencing it from the student side of the training command - those BFM flights were pretty scripted. If I hadn't gotten my last of orders I would have been looking to join you down there in Kingsville!

Par - you asked about conversions. Those vary by airline and you'll have to be careful to apply the correct conversion factor to your times. There is a debate about whether to apply those factors is you already meet the required minimums - probably safest to have both ready - but you shouldn't nee them by the time you leave the training command.
Once you are instructing in the training command - go over to Sheppard Air and look into the military equivalency instructor ratings. There are a few good threads here on APC too.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:10 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
I've never heard of a strike/fighter guy going to the multi-engine pipeline to instruct.
That's what I figured.
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Old 06-29-2013, 06:45 AM
  #14  
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It's not entirely true. Just hired a harrier guy that flew T-6s at Vance, then came to TW-4 staff and got on the C-12. Once you have the jet qual no one will let you go anywhere else but jets. This was his twilight tour in Corpus and he got some love.
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Old 06-29-2013, 06:58 AM
  #15  
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With the F-35 looking like it may finally hit the fleet in a few years, I suspect that multi time is going to be getting tougher and tougher for strike fighter guys.

Bunk, I may have to pick your brain in the regional thing. I really don't want to have to go that route, but if I don't get called by the majors and want to stay n the game, it might become a necessary evil.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:08 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
Bunk -

Come on now!
Actually I enjoyed the strike and BFM and 2v2 stuff much more than other aspects of the FTR syllabus, but BFM hops are pretty much cream of the crop. I will say though - and only experiencing it from the student side of the training command - those BFM flights were pretty scripted. If I hadn't gotten my last of orders I would have been looking to join you down there in Kingsville!
Most are scripted but you know, do it every day and you get somewhat good at it, the basics at least. The stories, maybe fish stories, of the Goshawk drivers beating up on new/relatively inexperienced Hornets in 2 v 1 scenarios. I'm guessing most of the top notch fleet guys go to the FRS...though that's not always the case for all communities as I went to the FRS as an IP But these guys get beat up doing BFM, 3 times a day, day after day. The 45 seat isn't exactly the best for the back. I did a few BFM flights and dozen plus tac form flights towards the end. The tac forms weren't too bad on the back as I recall. Most guys like doing the weps stuff, going on dets. I had to retire but just about every IP can qual with weps or CQ but CQ depends on the number of traps. I think it's down to 120 traps to be a lead safe.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:16 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by flybynuts View Post
It's not entirely true. Just hired a harrier guy that flew T-6s at Vance, then came to TW-4 staff and got on the C-12. Once you have the jet qual no one will let you go anywhere else but jets. This was his twilight tour in Corpus and he got some love.
Marine jet types can go to Primary flight training. My old skipper at VT-6, Col Ball was a Hornet driver and we had over a half dozen Marine AV-8B and Hornet drivers....maybe one Prowler type. Rarely do I see a Navy jet guy in a primary squadron. I was E2/C2 and it's tough for us to go primary as well.

Buddy of mine, a former Harrier driver just retired out of Corpus, he flew both the C-12 and T-45. Anything is possible, even when not normal.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:36 AM
  #18  
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What Bunk said. I got over 1000 hrs in Kingsville in 3 years. I had 2 kids at home so I didn't go on the road much, but some of the IPs who liked to grab a student and hit the road on the weekends got 1500 hrs in same amount of time. It's the land of misfit toys, but I absolutely loved it. Lots of Harrier bubbas there, most of them good sticks, but terrible poker players....
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:46 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by e6bpilot View Post
With the F-35 looking like it may finally hit the fleet in a few years, I suspect that multi time is going to be getting tougher and tougher for strike fighter guys.

Bunk, I may have to pick your brain in the regional thing. I really don't want to have to go that route, but if I don't get called by the majors and want to stay n the game, it might become a necessary evil.
F-35 time will be like F-16 time. Turbine time that's an F-35 will not be frowned upon.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:50 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by bunk22 View Post
Most are scripted but you know, do it every day and you get somewhat good at it, the basics at least.
Absolutely - drilling the basics over and over are very good. As long as you also have the skills to adapt when the guy breaks right instead of left like the script calls for. I'm going off of my own admittedly dated experience from my training command experience (which was fluid and dynamic as a SNA) and looking at it now through more seasoned eyes (though not quite as sharp!) Maybe the ACM syllabus in the training command with the T045 was revamped. I know the syllabuses go through review quite often. I have to admit though that I thought the idea of introducing NVGs to SNAs was going to step too far.

The stories, maybe fish stories, of the Goshawk drivers beating up on new/relatively inexperienced Hornets in 2 v 1 scenarios. I'm guessing most of the top notch fleet guys go to the FRS...though that's not always the case for all communities as I went to the FRS as an IP
When I was a student going through - so new/relatively inexperienced as you say - we were getting beat up by the guys in VF-45 flying A-4s and F-5s (along with F-16Ns). Of course those older aircraft were being flown by guys with a lot of BFM/ACM experience so I would expect nothing more out of an experience TomCat/Hornet guy now flying T-45s to be able to exploit that experience against a new Hornet guy for example. Now give that Hornet guy a chance to gain some experience (let's say around 500-700 hrs, a full deployment under his belt and ACTI or SFTI Level 4 under his belt and I'll wager that a T-45 isn't going to fare well a vast majority of the time.

But these guys get beat up doing BFM, 3 times a day, day after day. The 45 seat isn't exactly the best for the back. I did a few BFM flights and dozen plus tac form flights towards the end. The tac forms weren't too bad on the back as I recall.
Well....consistently pullings Gs is never that great for the body, but we dot it. There is a thread on here about back and neck problems from the tactical communities. It is real.

[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by bunk22 View Post
Marine jet types can go to Primary flight training. My old skipper at VT-6, Col Ball was a Hornet driver and we had over a half dozen Marine AV-8B and Hornet drivers....maybe one Prowler type. Rarely do I see a Navy jet guy in a primary squadron. I was E2/C2 and it's tough for us to go primary as well.
Part of the reason Col Ball went to be a Primary squadron CO, and he got a lot of tactical guys in VT-6 as IPs, was a thought up the chain the drop in people wanting to chose the Strike pipeline was because of a lack of representation in the Primary squadrons and the fact that there seem to be a feeling that SNAs thought the process was too hard or took too long compared to other pipelines. Again - this has been discussed many times on APC. My OPSO at VT-27 in '91 was a A-3 driver Personally I'll bet that more strike tactical guys will look favorably on flying the T-6 in Primary rather than the T-34C. It was getting to be a tired workhorse.
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