Originally Posted by AirBear

Previously we had contract language that made it very difficult for NetJets to downgrade PIC's. I was hired in 2005 and upgraded in 2007. I stayed a PIC until I left in 2017. After the furloughs I was flying as PIC less than half the time. But I still got the paycheck.
I think the downgrade language was adjusted in a later contract deal or IBB so that it was easier to downgrade.

Originally Posted by MinRest

I don't remember the % but they are for sure within the downgrade language range right now.

Originally Posted by MinRest

I don't remember the % but they are for sure within the downgrade language range right now.

Originally Posted by FracCracka

I’m not sure where you got that information, but it is not correct.

Originally Posted by hdgbug

I may be crazy, but I will brave the sharks and take a stab at this again. Unfortunately there are a lot of factors outside of your control - fleet assignment, training delays, the scheduling gods, maintenance, etc. However, I have found that most people end up pretty close to their fleet averages for the year, even when it feels like you never fly (been there!). As we all know, the problem with averages is there will be those above and below. The bigger problem is that being an outlier or even just off the average, especially below, is that it is mostly due to dumb luck. I will try to give a data based answer as much as possible to give a range, vs my specific data point. Sorry in advance for the long post and hopefully it makes some sense. TLDR: I the believe data the backs up a reasonable year 1 average to be $101,740 to $128,147.

2023 Year 1 Base Wages are as follows -
7/7 & CC60 - $70,781
8/6 - $82,106
CC52 - $67,242 (And yes, new hires have been successful in bidding this schedule depending on fleet)
CC72 - $86,353
CC76 - $92,015

Based on the most recent data from the Union on fleet averages - The lowest new hire fleet is averaging 2.88 hours per day. The highest new hire fleet is averaging 3.65 hours per day. The average for all the new hire fleets is 3.26 hours per day.

*This is where it gets a little subjective in how to apply these data points* This is my recommendation for estimating first year pay (disclaimer: it may only be worth what you paid for it) -

Others have said, expect 3 months on the training pay schedule (CC72). I think that is a fair average. Some may be longer, some may be shorter. After that you can choose your desired schedule (from a list of available options) until the next bid. Starting the first bid after completion of IOE, you bid like everyone else. When calculating hour many tours you will be able to earn FDP, I would suggest planning on only the tours after the completion of the training schedule to give you a safer answer. So for example on the 7/7, I would recommend only planning on 18 tours or 126 days (26 yearly tours - 6 missed tours while on the CC76 - 1 tour vacation - 1 tour recurrent). The CC schedules make this part more complicated. For days available to earn FDP, I would take total days worked in two bid periods minus 14 days (vacation and recurrent). So for the CC76, I would recommend estimating 138 days (152 days for two bid periods of the CC76 - 7 days for vacation - 7 days for recurrent). Since the CC schedules tour lengths are not set, it is not as easy to determine how many tours you will work. But, I think it is fair to estimate an average of 3 tours per month, or 25 tours your first year (27 tours for 9 months - 1 tour vacation - 1 tour recurrent).

Base pay = (CC72 Base x .25) + (Desired Schedule x .75)
FDP = ((Days available to earn FDP x fleet average per day) - (Tours worked x 10)) x 148

Example for 7/7 and the lowest FDP fleet
(86353 x .25) + (70781 x .75)
21588.25 + 53085.75
Base pay = $74,674

((126 x 2.88) - (18 x 10)) x 148
(362.88 - 180) x 148
FDP = $27,066.24

Total Year 1 = $101,740

Example for CC76 and highest FDP fleet
(86353 x .25) + (92015 x .75)
21588.25 + 69011.25
Base pay = $90,599.5

((138 x 3.65) - (24 x 10)) x 148
(503.7 - 250) x 148
FDP = $37,547.6

Total Year 1 = $128,147.1

All of this to say, I think a reasonable year one range would be between $101,740 to $128,147. You can plug and play with the various schedules and FDP values to match your expected situation. Common knowledge is to plan only on your guaranteed base pay. For which you can still use these calculations to figure out base pay dependent on schedule choice, just ignore the FDP portion. However, if you are trying to determine what you might expect with FDP, I would suggest planning on getting assigned to the lowest FDP fleet.

Before everyone jumps on "well but what about" - Yes, some people make more than this and some people make less. As I said before, there will be outliers and those who are above or below these averages. That's the nature of the game here/averages, some things you just have no control over. Yes, if it takes longer to begin IOE that will reduce the number of tours available to make FDP, thus reducing total year 1 compensation. On the flip side, you will stay on the CC72 pay longer, which could raise your base pay if you intend on picking a lesser schedule after IOE.Yes, I did not factor in overnight, NFAD, holiday, after midnights, extended days, etc. These would all add to total year one compensation, but these are even more elusive to tie down good data backed average for how much you are going to get. Yes, you do not take home 100% of the FDP pay, 1/3 of your FDP will go straight to your 401k. That will be deducted before it ever hits your bank account in addition to all your other taxes/deductions. Yes, these fleet averages change, and the next round of data we may see a decrease. All you can do is make as educated decision as you can with the data available. Yes, Netjets compensation is hard to understand. 18 months here and I'm still learning how some of the soft money is calculated. I'd love to see it simplified in future contracts and less dependent on luck. Finally, no, I am not saying you are guaranteed to break $100,00 in your first year.

Originally Posted by hdgbug

Netjets is now advertising a first year pay of $125,000 to $150,000 on their website. This is based on the median pay for year one FOs according to their literature. I would strongly caution those looking at coming to NJA against expecting to see numbers that high. While those numbers are certainly possible, they are very dependent on the factors I laid out in my post below. The new fleet numbers from Q4 of last year are finally out, and there is very little difference to the numbers I used below. I still stand behind the numbers that I presented in this previous post as a reasonable year 1 average.

Originally Posted by Deserthusker

Where are you seeing this advertised?

Originally Posted by hdgbug

Netjets is now advertising a first year pay of $125,000 to $150,000 on their website. This is based on the median pay for year one FOs according to their literature. I would strongly caution those looking at coming to NJA against expecting to see numbers that high. While those numbers are certainly possible, they are very dependent on the factors I laid out in my post below. The new fleet numbers from Q4 of last year are finally out, and there is very little difference to the numbers I used below. I still stand behind the numbers that I presented in this previous post as a reasonable year 1 average.

Originally Posted by jtf560

Your original numbers look right. Management's advertising is misleading at best, and likely an intentional lie. Anyone thinking about NetJets, don't bank on any number management puts up. You are likely better off at about any airline- including the regionals (as much as that hurts to admit after taking my lumps there back in the dark days). That could change if we get a much improved contract, but you are pretty much guaranteed better at most other places.

Originally Posted by Deserthusker

Where are you seeing this advertised?