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NetJets reduces pilot hiring minimums

Old 07-15-2022, 01:52 PM
  #21  
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Their minimums don't make sense to me. I just had a buddy email them that has R-ATP minimums with 1500 hours total and 200+ hours of cross country. They want 500 hours cross country if it's not with a university affidavit. He has a bachelor's in aviation but his flight training was done at a part 61. So there he goes to the airlines...
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Old 07-15-2022, 04:31 PM
  #22  
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The restricted ATP is to get the pipeline from University 141 training pilots if I had to guess for lower time pilots. The company is a big believer in this. There is even a podcast interview with Alan and Sean and they discuss this.

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Old 07-16-2022, 06:00 AM
  #23  
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I get that, but why exclude someone because they trained at a part 61 school? Interesting they also specify greater than 50nm for the cross country requirement when the ATP cert only requires point to point. (nm, i looked at the NetJets minimums myself in regard to >50nm Cross country) I doubt they would accept cross country time that didn't include a landing at a point beyond 50nm, but who knows.

Last edited by JRFliers; 07-16-2022 at 06:08 AM. Reason: Error
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Old 07-16-2022, 06:13 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by tm602 View Post
Especially in a very dynamic environment like NJA has. I'm not necessarily saying anything one way or the other over a retirement age "number", but there needs to be some cognitive testing done as age advances. Not some BS simulator ride where the gouge gets out and you're the only plane in the sky etc. Something that is done by mental health professionals. Flame away, but biology is biology. Some hold on better than others and this a way to prove it. You have it or you lost it. Some by age 45 are checked out, and I have seen guys in their 70s holding on well.
Well that's just the thing, there's no set age where cognitive decline begins. And worse, some (albeit very few), were never particularly sharp to begin with. So at what age do we begin testing people for cognitive decline? Seems like picking an age would end up being just another random number we will hate. And it'd be discriminatory. A cognitive test would have to be given to everyone.

Furthermore, which test do we use? There actually is not any standard test that is recognized in the scientific community as being able to reliably identify cognitive decline. Sure, there are some tests that are pretty good at identifying cognitive issues when they become serious, such as identifying Altzheimer's, but nothing exists to truly identify a more "normal" cognitive decline. Since everyone is different, what's the baseline? How do you know if someone has deteriorated from where they were before if you never measured where they started from?

It's really not the same as physical health. And speaking of which, we all know the FAA medicals we take are a joke. Should we tighten up those standards too? We could eliminate some of the older pilots that way. But we need to be prepared to see a lot of younger folks be dismissed too.

You can't just "target" older pilots with tests. Maybe it can be done legislatively, like the age 65 rule for 121 operators, but coming up with tests that are specifically meant to weed out older pilots is illegal and unethical.
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Old 07-19-2022, 08:19 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by OnTheMeridian View Post
Well that's just the thing, there's no set age where cognitive decline begins. And worse, some (albeit very few), were never particularly sharp to begin with. So at what age do we begin testing people for cognitive decline? Seems like picking an age would end up being just another random number we will hate. And it'd be discriminatory. A cognitive test would have to be given to everyone.

Furthermore, which test do we use? There actually is not any standard test that is recognized in the scientific community as being able to reliably identify cognitive decline. Sure, there are some tests that are pretty good at identifying cognitive issues when they become serious, such as identifying Altzheimer's, but nothing exists to truly identify a more "normal" cognitive decline. Since everyone is different, what's the baseline? How do you know if someone has deteriorated from where they were before if you never measured where they started from?

It's really not the same as physical health. And speaking of which, we all know the FAA medicals we take are a joke. Should we tighten up those standards too? We could eliminate some of the older pilots that way. But we need to be prepared to see a lot of younger folks be dismissed too.

You can't just "target" older pilots with tests. Maybe it can be done legislatively, like the age 65 rule for 121 operators, but coming up with tests that are specifically meant to weed out older pilots is illegal and unethical.
You seem to forget we undergo an annual cognitive test in the form of simulator training during recurrent and initials. Problem pilots are all well known in the training department. The only thing we need to do is properly follow through with training to ATP standards. Those that don’t make the cut after some remedial help or need to always rely on their sim partner to get through should be put to pasture. This job isn’t for everybody.
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Old 07-19-2022, 11:01 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by JRFliers View Post
I get that, but why exclude someone because they trained at a part 61 school? Interesting they also specify greater than 50nm for the cross country requirement when the ATP cert only requires point to point. (nm, i looked at the NetJets minimums myself in regard to >50nm Cross country) I doubt they would accept cross country time that didn't include a landing at a point beyond 50nm, but who knows.
Part 135 allows for PTP XC, but for certificates/ratings, it has to be >50NM. There is a provision that allows you to log >50NM without a landing when pursuing the ATP only. There is no reason they shouldn't accept the time, since this is how quite a bit of the military builds XC time.
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Old 07-19-2022, 02:02 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by tm602 View Post
Especially in a very dynamic environment like NJA has. I'm not necessarily saying anything one way or the other over a retirement age "number", but there needs to be some cognitive testing done as age advances. Not some BS simulator ride where the gouge gets out and you're the only plane in the sky etc. Something that is done by mental health professionals. Flame away, but biology is biology. Some hold on better than others and this a way to prove it. You have it or you lost it. Some by age 45 are checked out, and I have seen guys in their 70s holding on well.
I mentioned this on another thread related to the 121 world. Serious question. Why not put police style body cameras on the crew? Reviewable by the FAA and management for performance or competency degradation. We have no issues putting them on law enforcement for accountability. Pilots arguably carry as much responsibility as law enforcement with regards to the public. No he said she said sts.
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Old 07-20-2022, 03:31 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by aeroengineer View Post
I mentioned this on another thread related to the 121 world. Serious question. Why not put police style body cameras on the crew? Reviewable by the FAA and management for performance or competency degradation. We have no issues putting them on law enforcement for accountability. Pilots arguably carry as much responsibility as law enforcement with regards to the public. No he said she said sts.

Don’t need them.

Dr. Baehr already placed monitoring capsules in us with the prostate exams back in the day. They double serve as a mini taser to get early showtimes moving.

Seriously though… worst idea ever. Body cams. No way.
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Old 07-20-2022, 05:45 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by aeroengineer View Post
I mentioned this on another thread related to the 121 world. Serious question. Why not put police style body cameras on the crew? Reviewable by the FAA and management for performance or competency degradation. We have no issues putting them on law enforcement for accountability. Pilots arguably carry as much responsibility as law enforcement with regards to the public. No he said she said sts.
Terrible idea and not necessary. We already have CVRs and FDRs to watch us. We are operating machines not dealing with the criminal public. There's already plenty of tools to keep and eye on us, A body cam would look stupid next to a Jacket and TIe.
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Old 07-20-2022, 05:52 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by ZebraSpots View Post
Don’t need them.

Dr. Baehr already placed monitoring capsules in us with the prostate exams back in the day. They double serve as a mini taser to get early showtimes moving.

Seriously though… worst idea ever. Body cams. No way.
Why not cams in all the bathrooms on the plane? After all, things can happen on a plane, outside of a careful observation of the Flight Attendants. Lol
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