Netjets latest & greatest:
09-21-2017 | 06:50 AM
#2631
Banned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 0
luckily since the plane weighs more than 40000lbs both pilots get paid extra to crew it and deal with-
-just got a PM from someone. Is it true that FOs don't get over 40k pay anymore? That was part of the CBA? FO scale tops out at year 11? Year 11 pay is still about 30,000 LESS than 2nd year pay at Delta, AA, UAL, Fedex, UPS, SWA.
I'm shocked, just shocked.
-just got a PM from someone. Is it true that FOs don't get over 40k pay anymore? That was part of the CBA? FO scale tops out at year 11? Year 11 pay is still about 30,000 LESS than 2nd year pay at Delta, AA, UAL, Fedex, UPS, SWA.
I'm shocked, just shocked.
09-21-2017 | 07:01 AM
#2632
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 969
Likes: 96
FO scale tops out at year 11?
I have a feeling the exact same problem is going to come up again, as there's no way an 11-year FO now is going to be upgrading in three years.As a sidenote, a lot of people jump and say "but the captain's side gets an override," but no, it doesn't, and it never did. On the old contract, the FOs got about a 7% pay boost for over-40k in every year of longevity. A 5-year Gulfstream FO made more money than a 5-year Excel FO.
The captains, then and now, simply have a payscale that goes out three more years. It's not the same deal that the FOs had. For the first 14 years, under-40k and over 40k pay exactly the same for captains. A 12-year Gulfstream captain makes the same base salary as a 12-year Excel captain.
Honestly, it never made any sense to me at all why the FOs got a percentage override in the larger planes, but the captains didn't.
09-21-2017 | 08:31 AM
#2633
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 9
From: PIC
Where shall we begin?
Performance: Slow, can't climb worth a damn, shorter range than Bombardier advertises, crap runway performance.
Inside: Tiny windows, uncomfortable seats (customers HATE them), cramped seating areas, no baggage space, NOBODY gets to the lav when the divan is made into a bed (you know, on the LONG flights
)
Only positives: Quiet. Cheap.
There are SO many more airplanes in that segment that are better. NJ will be paying for this Sokol/Hansell stupidity for another decade.
Any questions?
Performance: Slow, can't climb worth a damn, shorter range than Bombardier advertises, crap runway performance.
Inside: Tiny windows, uncomfortable seats (customers HATE them), cramped seating areas, no baggage space, NOBODY gets to the lav when the divan is made into a bed (you know, on the LONG flights
)Only positives: Quiet. Cheap.
There are SO many more airplanes in that segment that are better. NJ will be paying for this Sokol/Hansell stupidity for another decade.
Any questions?
09-21-2017 | 12:09 PM
#2636
Banned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 0
09-21-2017 | 12:12 PM
#2637
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
From: Pilot
And if we ever setup a flow through, I bet every Air Koryo pilot will absolutely love our crew food.
09-21-2017 | 12:34 PM
#2638
Banned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 0
09-21-2017 | 01:36 PM
#2639
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 408
Likes: 2
From: Weekends off
After reading all the negative stuff on here about NJA, let me post some positive stuff. I've been thinking a lot about it recently as I have an SWA interview coming up and it has made me realize that I do have it pretty good here.
I am a 10 yr FO (just started 11 yr pay and also have 4 weeks vacation this year for the first time). I will make roughly 100k this year, not including per diem or 401(k) match. I am on the CC52 schedule, working 13 days/month. I am home based so those 13 days are all in. No commuting on my own time. I have 150ish (new hires have 105 or something like that) bases to choose from and can change anytime with 15 days notice.
For Oct I will work a 7 day trip, have 15 off, 6 day trip, 3 off. Pretty typical month. Occasionally I will have an 8 day tour in there.
Vacation months are pretty sweet as I will work 6 days those months. With 4 weeks vacation plus a week of personal time (which I always use), I will work 6 days for 5 months out of the year. 2 more weeks per year is training, so I will only fly the line 6 days those months. So I will be out flying 6 days for 7 months of the year, the rest I will fly 13. I have blocked 305 hrs in the last 12 months. I'm on the Phenom and we do not work that hard. I average about 25 hrs for a 7 day tour. We do our share of 12 hr+ duty days but it is not that bad. We had 26 hr duty days in the military with massive time zone shifts so this is a piece of cake. If we are too tired, we fatigue, end of story.
We have 100% free medical/dental/vision.
Am I disappointed over my lack of career progression? Of course, but my QOL is very good and I still make plenty to support my family and still max out my 401(k) and IRAs. I wish the compensation was better, hopefully that will be improved next contract, whenever that might be (earliest will be 2020).
If I get the opportunity with SWA and accept, I will certainly make more cash over the long run (particularly if you include retirement and profit sharing contributions). As a commuter I do not think my QOL will be any better, at least not for some time. I do love SWA as a company and have many friends there. I think the flexibility and ability to drop (with seniority) or pick up trips would be awesome. Shorter duty days but a LOT more butt in the seat time. Commuting will suck for sure as that will be lost days at home.
The point of this is to say that NJA is a good gig. I am happy and grateful to be here. If you can't handle schedule changes or having to clean an airplane then do not come here. If you want to fly to some cool places with (mostly) great folks, have a great schedule*, and decent pay, then give it a shot. If I wind up leaving it will be with mixed emotions for sure.
*assuming you are not on the CC72 or CC76, those suck. Good thing they are voluntary.
I am a 10 yr FO (just started 11 yr pay and also have 4 weeks vacation this year for the first time). I will make roughly 100k this year, not including per diem or 401(k) match. I am on the CC52 schedule, working 13 days/month. I am home based so those 13 days are all in. No commuting on my own time. I have 150ish (new hires have 105 or something like that) bases to choose from and can change anytime with 15 days notice.
For Oct I will work a 7 day trip, have 15 off, 6 day trip, 3 off. Pretty typical month. Occasionally I will have an 8 day tour in there.
Vacation months are pretty sweet as I will work 6 days those months. With 4 weeks vacation plus a week of personal time (which I always use), I will work 6 days for 5 months out of the year. 2 more weeks per year is training, so I will only fly the line 6 days those months. So I will be out flying 6 days for 7 months of the year, the rest I will fly 13. I have blocked 305 hrs in the last 12 months. I'm on the Phenom and we do not work that hard. I average about 25 hrs for a 7 day tour. We do our share of 12 hr+ duty days but it is not that bad. We had 26 hr duty days in the military with massive time zone shifts so this is a piece of cake. If we are too tired, we fatigue, end of story.
We have 100% free medical/dental/vision.
Am I disappointed over my lack of career progression? Of course, but my QOL is very good and I still make plenty to support my family and still max out my 401(k) and IRAs. I wish the compensation was better, hopefully that will be improved next contract, whenever that might be (earliest will be 2020).
If I get the opportunity with SWA and accept, I will certainly make more cash over the long run (particularly if you include retirement and profit sharing contributions). As a commuter I do not think my QOL will be any better, at least not for some time. I do love SWA as a company and have many friends there. I think the flexibility and ability to drop (with seniority) or pick up trips would be awesome. Shorter duty days but a LOT more butt in the seat time. Commuting will suck for sure as that will be lost days at home.
The point of this is to say that NJA is a good gig. I am happy and grateful to be here. If you can't handle schedule changes or having to clean an airplane then do not come here. If you want to fly to some cool places with (mostly) great folks, have a great schedule*, and decent pay, then give it a shot. If I wind up leaving it will be with mixed emotions for sure.
*assuming you are not on the CC72 or CC76, those suck. Good thing they are voluntary.
If the fractional industry hits wake turbulence from a landing butterfly you are on the street. I know NetJets keeps saying they are not growing because they are preparing for the next downturn but 250 pilots to the street sure will help the bottom line in a downturn.
And that is why being a junior 11 year FO is scary. I am not saying that wouldn't happen at an airline but having a few thousand behind you could be helpful if it works out.
09-21-2017 | 01:42 PM
#2640
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Here is what scares me the most about NetJets. At your 11 years of seniority how many people are behind you ? 250?
If the fractional industry hits wake turbulence from a landing butterfly you are on the street. I know NetJets keeps saying they are not growing because they are preparing for the next downturn but 250 pilots to the street sure will help the bottom line in a downturn.
And that is why being a junior 11 year FO is scary. I am not saying that wouldn't happen at an airline but having a few thousand behind you could be helpful if it works out.
If the fractional industry hits wake turbulence from a landing butterfly you are on the street. I know NetJets keeps saying they are not growing because they are preparing for the next downturn but 250 pilots to the street sure will help the bottom line in a downturn.
And that is why being a junior 11 year FO is scary. I am not saying that wouldn't happen at an airline but having a few thousand behind you could be helpful if it works out.
You CAN NOT trust NJA management to keep this ship upright for the long haul.
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