Penair News
02-22-2009, 10:49 AM
#165
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by ZAT4US
Contacted ALPA. They said there was no contacts, interviews, etc. as described by TT.
I'm sorry I did not take your other post seriously....What I said was disrespectful and unprofessional. I apologise.
First of all, I don't think you did......Why would you? Second of all, do you really think they would have given you any information? No. I'm sure that if they would have spoken to you, (which they did not) they would have spoken to DS at some point and four or five of us would not have a job right now. Just humor me, who did you contact at ALPA?
The union is still in order, I assure everyone. We just need to wait for better timing.
If I was not TT, why is he not here to represent himself? Answer that.
On my knees servicing my fellow pilots till the end of time........TT
02-22-2009, 04:22 PM
#166
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 52
I contacted an ALPA rep from a major carrier. Why you ask? Because it is not something to be taken lightly and fact checking is rather easy. I asked about 2000 training because if there is none scheduled then there won't be one on the ramp. I thank you for your apology.
02-22-2009, 10:18 PM
#168
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 35
First of all at this point I would like to stress that our group “The united pilot coalition of Peninsula Airways” UPCPA has no official association with ALPA at this point in time. I can assure you that we have been in contact with them and the “ball is rolling”. Our organization needs to stress this point in order to protect ourselves from management. I am sure that your friend the ALPA representative at “a major airline” is well informed and in the loop. Many layers of ALPA representation exist within each pilot group, but unless he is the MEC chair, your friend’s knowledge of our world is limited.
One must realize that the process of any pilot group seeking union ratification is both unique and complex. Many times I have stated that the time is not right for a union. In many cases this is an incorrect statement. The firings out of seniority last August are a prime example. The main reason that we wait is for contract execution.
The problems with inciting a union within the pilot group have been stated previously in this forum, so I’m not going to bring them up now. We have been actively negotiating with Alaska for some sort of flow up / flow down provision. This has been difficult because it is an entirely separate company all together. But overtime we do believe that we have made progress;
1) The current proposal is that, “the major airline” would be required to hire the first five pilots per month from the PenAir pilot group prior to any street hires. Up to 20% of the total PenAir seniority list per year.
2) Conversely, pilots furloughed from their pilot group would displace PenAir pilots in our pilot group at the same rate. Five per month and 20% of our seniority list per year.
One reason this was not discussed earlier is that we needed to organize training expenses and payment for the flow up / flow down process, but a tentative understanding has been reached. As I stated organizing the layout of the union has been quite a complex process. Mostly because of our small size and the flow process. Currently our plan is not to have our own MEC chair, but to have their MEC chair represent us. Having our own MEC for such a small pilot group would be relatively powerless, but more importantly this will make the flow process between the two totally separate companies legal.
In the near future everyone within the pilot group will be hearing from us as soon as we have a completed draft contract. Please give us time and since everything here on APC is anonymous we do ask for the input of all PenAir pilots. Thank you
I would take a bullet for every one of us……………TT
One must realize that the process of any pilot group seeking union ratification is both unique and complex. Many times I have stated that the time is not right for a union. In many cases this is an incorrect statement. The firings out of seniority last August are a prime example. The main reason that we wait is for contract execution.
The problems with inciting a union within the pilot group have been stated previously in this forum, so I’m not going to bring them up now. We have been actively negotiating with Alaska for some sort of flow up / flow down provision. This has been difficult because it is an entirely separate company all together. But overtime we do believe that we have made progress;
1) The current proposal is that, “the major airline” would be required to hire the first five pilots per month from the PenAir pilot group prior to any street hires. Up to 20% of the total PenAir seniority list per year.
2) Conversely, pilots furloughed from their pilot group would displace PenAir pilots in our pilot group at the same rate. Five per month and 20% of our seniority list per year.
One reason this was not discussed earlier is that we needed to organize training expenses and payment for the flow up / flow down process, but a tentative understanding has been reached. As I stated organizing the layout of the union has been quite a complex process. Mostly because of our small size and the flow process. Currently our plan is not to have our own MEC chair, but to have their MEC chair represent us. Having our own MEC for such a small pilot group would be relatively powerless, but more importantly this will make the flow process between the two totally separate companies legal.
In the near future everyone within the pilot group will be hearing from us as soon as we have a completed draft contract. Please give us time and since everything here on APC is anonymous we do ask for the input of all PenAir pilots. Thank you
I would take a bullet for every one of us……………TT
02-23-2009, 09:22 AM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Groundlooped and liking it
Posts: 266
I find it even harder to believe that you're talking to Alaska about a flow-through than I do you talking to ALPA. Why would Alaska do that? As you pointed out earlier, most of our pilots couldn't qualify for an interview, much less make it through the pscyh. part, and how many of their pilots would want to flow down to us, when (if an agreement was in place) they could be displaced to Horizon? I'm not against you, just suspicious.
02-23-2009, 05:21 PM
#170
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 35
Sorry that the proposed flow has not been mentioned up until this point, but as I said we need to validate the contract at the right time. We would like to wait until their entire pilot group is back on the property. This will simplify things greatly in order to separate the two groups from the beginning. The general consensus is to see people flow from our side to theirs first. This is the reason that we would like to correlate us signing a contract and them recalling all furloughed pilots.
A flow up is a guaranteed job with a solid employee number. Horizon does not have this luxury. They must interview with the company and be hired, just as any street hire. They approached us initially; evidently they have been more then impressed with the quality of the last five or so pilots hired from the Penair pilot group. Again, their main incentive was the flow back. It makes it more likely that they be able to recall a pilot that is based in Anchorage and never is jobless. Stats have shown that a large percentage of furloughed pilots obtain employment else ware and never return to their original company. This is very expensive because they may train for the same initial position multiple times in as little as six months.
I will answer your question regarding the selection of PenAir employees eligible for flow up tomorrow. As for the current pilot group, we estimate that 60 to 70 percent would be entitled to flow, based on those stats stated earlier.
To serve my pilots………….is my soul reserving a place in history…………..TT
A flow up is a guaranteed job with a solid employee number. Horizon does not have this luxury. They must interview with the company and be hired, just as any street hire. They approached us initially; evidently they have been more then impressed with the quality of the last five or so pilots hired from the Penair pilot group. Again, their main incentive was the flow back. It makes it more likely that they be able to recall a pilot that is based in Anchorage and never is jobless. Stats have shown that a large percentage of furloughed pilots obtain employment else ware and never return to their original company. This is very expensive because they may train for the same initial position multiple times in as little as six months.
I will answer your question regarding the selection of PenAir employees eligible for flow up tomorrow. As for the current pilot group, we estimate that 60 to 70 percent would be entitled to flow, based on those stats stated earlier.
To serve my pilots………….is my soul reserving a place in history…………..TT
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