Ameriflight
05-15-2014, 03:23 PM
#1871
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Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 99
I had fun flying at AMF most of the time, sometimes the flying was crappy but thats flying. It was everything else that drove me nuts. Well below average pay, horrible layover conditions, horrible base management (YMMV) and a horrible schedule. I think people that make a career out of freight are freaking nuts, but if you go in and get out to something better, you did exactly what AMF is designed for.
05-15-2014, 03:31 PM
#1872
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 99
Then that isn't a flying problem, it is a personality problem.
So your example was one person that you knew who had trouble making the transition and not a more general statement that single pilot ops builds habit patterns that are hard to break and could endanger training? This statement sounds pretty general to me:
I'd venture to guess that your example might well be in the minority than a majority. I'm sure there is someone who can't transition from doing everything themselves to load sharing, but my experience.
Maybe you are a fan of the MPL?
So your example was one person that you knew who had trouble making the transition and not a more general statement that single pilot ops builds habit patterns that are hard to break and could endanger training? This statement sounds pretty general to me:
I'd venture to guess that your example might well be in the minority than a majority. I'm sure there is someone who can't transition from doing everything themselves to load sharing, but my experience.
Maybe you are a fan of the MPL?
Actually i think the problem may be the opposite. For the majority of pilots if the only experience you have before AMF is CFI or single pilot aerial photography, the day you go for a regional or major (after you have spent 4-5 years at AMF because that's the time you may need before you have enough flight time) you may have a problem getting used to a multi crew environment.
If before AMF you had other experiences you may have no problem.
I'm glad that you had no problem maybe you belong to the second case.
05-15-2014, 04:00 PM
#1874
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 99
That whole "TODAY" thing is what's making me itch to chime in....yes, that is the CURRENT state of hiring at some places, but what will it be tomorrow, next week, next month, or by the time anyone gets the qualifications attractive enough to get the attention of HR??
I understand you had a crappy experience, and it's good to let people know so they can be informed. But, it's a personal thing I think...as for the MIA Base, it was heaven to me! Not to mention it was a job paying a livable wage as well! I have worked some very crappy jobs and I don't think I'll ever be completely happy unless I adjust my attitude and expectations. We always will have a complaint. Give me a livable wage, nice reserve time, weekends off, good maintenance, a reputable name to work for, great IFR experience, awesome group of pilots and I'm sold on the place. AMF was waaaay better than anywhere I've worked and I value the experience of flying there as well as meeting the people I worked with. You actually do get a little notoriety having flown these planes single pilot and having dealt with so many situations and weather that come up in 135 freight when you show someone your resume anywhere (and believe me, I have applied at a crap load of places so I've seen people's reaction).
As for those going to the regionals afterwards, I think it's a necessary step to make it to the big airlines and having the PIC time which MAY be a requirement again will have set that pilot up for success. My case was I had mostly PIC and AMF gave me Turbine PIC, I wasn't able to get too far without jet and 121 time; and that's what precipitated my move and that of the other guys....we're checking those boxes. Think of the pilots who have been at regionals for a while and don't have the PIC time yet...there was a time when they were praying for a chance to do so at a regional, some still are, for years. Luckily things have changed for the moment and they are getting somewhere without it; but who knows what the future holds??
At my base we had a regional pilot with way more time than most of us started with and zilch PIC, he came to AMF for that alone and guess what happened when he had the PIC + total + jet/121 (4 years) from the regionals he was at before? He moved on with a much better resume...set himself up for success and is reaping the benefits.
The whole glass time thing is something that weighs on my mind, I admit. But, who the F can't fly that??? FMS?...if you don't know how to learn computers by now then you might as well quit while you're young. I think it's more important to get quality flight time and experience that attracts attention while you can. It's all about meeting requirements that WILL change as often as companies want them to. Do you want to be sweating, praying and hoping you are okay without having checked in one box? I don't, and I think most (if not all) guys at AMF are there for that sole reason.
Being forthcoming with only the bad at a company doesn't give the whole story and it's very biased. If I listened to everyone that bad mouthed a company or a person, I wouldn't have gained the experience that today makes me proud to show my resume, not shyly hand it over and hope they like my personality, or that my connection is better than the other guy's. That metro time has been good to me in my search, and I have AMF to thank for that.
And to finish, freight 135 life isn't that bad if it's right for your life. The captain that trained me had a run he loved, 3 days off a week, making decent money was happy with the place and he didn't want to go anywhere any time soon...it's all about perspective; as with anything in life.
Be prepared, because hope and timing won't get you all the way there!
I understand you had a crappy experience, and it's good to let people know so they can be informed. But, it's a personal thing I think...as for the MIA Base, it was heaven to me! Not to mention it was a job paying a livable wage as well! I have worked some very crappy jobs and I don't think I'll ever be completely happy unless I adjust my attitude and expectations. We always will have a complaint. Give me a livable wage, nice reserve time, weekends off, good maintenance, a reputable name to work for, great IFR experience, awesome group of pilots and I'm sold on the place. AMF was waaaay better than anywhere I've worked and I value the experience of flying there as well as meeting the people I worked with. You actually do get a little notoriety having flown these planes single pilot and having dealt with so many situations and weather that come up in 135 freight when you show someone your resume anywhere (and believe me, I have applied at a crap load of places so I've seen people's reaction).
As for those going to the regionals afterwards, I think it's a necessary step to make it to the big airlines and having the PIC time which MAY be a requirement again will have set that pilot up for success. My case was I had mostly PIC and AMF gave me Turbine PIC, I wasn't able to get too far without jet and 121 time; and that's what precipitated my move and that of the other guys....we're checking those boxes. Think of the pilots who have been at regionals for a while and don't have the PIC time yet...there was a time when they were praying for a chance to do so at a regional, some still are, for years. Luckily things have changed for the moment and they are getting somewhere without it; but who knows what the future holds??
At my base we had a regional pilot with way more time than most of us started with and zilch PIC, he came to AMF for that alone and guess what happened when he had the PIC + total + jet/121 (4 years) from the regionals he was at before? He moved on with a much better resume...set himself up for success and is reaping the benefits.
The whole glass time thing is something that weighs on my mind, I admit. But, who the F can't fly that??? FMS?...if you don't know how to learn computers by now then you might as well quit while you're young. I think it's more important to get quality flight time and experience that attracts attention while you can. It's all about meeting requirements that WILL change as often as companies want them to. Do you want to be sweating, praying and hoping you are okay without having checked in one box? I don't, and I think most (if not all) guys at AMF are there for that sole reason.
Being forthcoming with only the bad at a company doesn't give the whole story and it's very biased. If I listened to everyone that bad mouthed a company or a person, I wouldn't have gained the experience that today makes me proud to show my resume, not shyly hand it over and hope they like my personality, or that my connection is better than the other guy's. That metro time has been good to me in my search, and I have AMF to thank for that.
And to finish, freight 135 life isn't that bad if it's right for your life. The captain that trained me had a run he loved, 3 days off a week, making decent money was happy with the place and he didn't want to go anywhere any time soon...it's all about perspective; as with anything in life.
Be prepared, because hope and timing won't get you all the way there!
So, for sure there is no perfect job because it all depends on who you are and what are your expectations, AMF is a big company and the good working condition of one base can be balanced by horrible ones in another base, so it's also a matter of been lucky to get the right base.
For the equipment that we fly at AMF, their condition are very well know in the business reason why when we show up with AMF on our resume we are very well respected because everyone knows AMF.
There is a difference that has to be made between the company and the pilots.
The working conditions at AMF are not good at all and they don't become any better because someone else can be even worst.
But because of that pilot that are willing to do work for AMF are known to be hard worker, knowledgeable and don't mind working for a few money.
My point is why? Why we should sell ourself for no money? Why do we help company like AMF to be in business thanks to the money they save first of all on our paychecks and benefits?
Why playing this game to accept lower and lower pay for the only benefits of the managements of the company?
Regionals are now voting down contract because they demand a decent pay and a fair treatment at work. Those two things don't belong to AMF for sure!
As far as the future, who may know? Of course no one may know what the future can be, we can see what the past has been.
In the last few years when major where looking for PIC turbine time was only because they did not need pilot (the economy was stagnant) and they were replacing only the pilots that were retiring (for the most part) at the moment majors and regionals are hiring and the only box that you have to check in 1000hrs turbine time. Of course that may not be the only thing, recruiter are gonna look at the whole resume, but that's the only box to check together with a full FAA ATP.
You know better than me that when you are hired at a major you can easily spend 15-17 years on the right seat!!! So why you need PIC time if you'll be a SIC for a lifetime, there are major pilots that i've met that will retire as a SIC!!
So, unless you don't want to fly for company as Medevac (which I respect and I think it could be a very cool job to do) which require turbine PIC time, as of today, i don't see the reason why you should go AMF.
A regional can give you part 121 experience which is the same kind of operation, job and mentality, that you'll do in a major and you can also have a type rating that can help you in a corporate job (CRJ, Legacy, etc).
Of course regional are very different from one another before choosing it i should do my research.
But of course i wouldn't spend time at AMF.
05-15-2014, 05:53 PM
#1876
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
There is very rarely an ALWAYS or NEVER.
You make to bold of a statement here.
No - it isn't either one - a personality problem or a flying problem.
If you can't work under someone younger than you - then it is some other problem than the stick and rudder skills of flying.
I guess I do belong to the second group.
Transitioning to a multi-place cockpit and working with another pilot was very easy.
I would not give up my single seat time for anything.
You didn't answer the last part of the post you quoted.
Are you a fan of the MPL and would you like to see it implemented here?
You make to bold of a statement here.
No - it isn't either one - a personality problem or a flying problem.
If you can't work under someone younger than you - then it is some other problem than the stick and rudder skills of flying.
I guess I do belong to the second group.
Transitioning to a multi-place cockpit and working with another pilot was very easy.
I would not give up my single seat time for anything.
You didn't answer the last part of the post you quoted.
Are you a fan of the MPL and would you like to see it implemented here?
05-15-2014, 06:14 PM
#1877
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 99
There is very rarely an ALWAYS or NEVER.
You make to bold of a statement here.
No - it isn't either one - a personality problem or a flying problem.
If you can't work under someone younger than you - then it is some other problem than the stick and rudder skills of flying.
I guess I do belong to the second group.
Transitioning to a multi-place cockpit and working with another pilot was very easy.
I would not give up my single seat time for anything.
You didn't answer the last part of the post you quoted.
Are you a fan of the MPL and would you like to see it implemented here?
You make to bold of a statement here.
No - it isn't either one - a personality problem or a flying problem.
If you can't work under someone younger than you - then it is some other problem than the stick and rudder skills of flying.
I guess I do belong to the second group.
Transitioning to a multi-place cockpit and working with another pilot was very easy.
I would not give up my single seat time for anything.
You didn't answer the last part of the post you quoted.
Are you a fan of the MPL and would you like to see it implemented here?
Of course you had no problem working in team, your military experience helped you out there a lot I guess, but not everyone has it.
Just a personal curiosity, how to do go from a Marine F18 to AMF?
05-16-2014, 01:13 AM
#1878
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Any
Posts: 660
My point is why? Why we should sell ourself for no money? Why do we help company like AMF to be in business thanks to the money they save first of all on our paychecks and benefits?
Why playing this game to accept lower and lower pay for the only benefits of the managements of the company?
Regionals are now voting down contract because they demand a decent pay and a fair treatment at work. Those two things don't belong to AMF for sure!
Why playing this game to accept lower and lower pay for the only benefits of the managements of the company?
Regionals are now voting down contract because they demand a decent pay and a fair treatment at work. Those two things don't belong to AMF for sure!
Save on the benefits? Find me another company, hiring brand new pilots (as brand new as they legally can, that is) that provides the 401K matching that AMF does. If you have ever needed health insurance, I personally don't think you could find much better. I hear stories from friends who have gotten refused treatment under their health plans. I have NEVER had that happen under the two different insurance companies we have had here in my time with AMF. And my wife and I are on the older side, so we USE our health coverage regularly.
You know better than me that when you are hired at a major you can easily spend 15-17 years on the right seat!!! So why you need PIC time if you'll be a SIC for a lifetime, there are major pilots that i've met that will retire as a SIC!!
But of course i wouldn't spend time at AMF.
05-16-2014, 04:38 AM
#1879
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
Of course you had no problem working in team, your military experience helped you out there a lot I guess, but not everyone has it.
Just a personal curiosity, how to do go from a Marine F18 to AMF
05-16-2014, 04:59 AM
#1880
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Any
Posts: 660
I was wondering what it was as well. I did a google search and got links about programming languages and marine (underwater, not USMC) studies and even the Milwaukee Public Library. But nothing that seemed related to aviation.
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