Ameriflight
#2862
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 14
I am LAN based, there is no BE99 here anymore. Sorry the job posting on ameriflights page does a disservice to people, a lot of them are not accurate. They have pretty much listed every single position that once existed or currently existed as open. Even if there is no opening.
#2864
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 2
I have a question about the "Asian Autopilots" at Ameriflight.
Okay, so these guys from Korea are paying to sit in the right seat, but the airplane is single-pilot only.
Fair enough, I understand the FAA exemption thing.
But... what is the guy in the right seat doing?
Is there any real CRM and two crew stuff, like multi crew flows and checklists performed together and standard callouts and divisions of responsibility?
Or is the guy in the right seat basically just sitting there and staring out the window?
I'm trying to wrap my mind around how this all works...
I assume when you're being trained, you're being trained to fly "single pilot" and basically do everything yourself.
Okay, so these guys from Korea are paying to sit in the right seat, but the airplane is single-pilot only.
Fair enough, I understand the FAA exemption thing.
But... what is the guy in the right seat doing?
Is there any real CRM and two crew stuff, like multi crew flows and checklists performed together and standard callouts and divisions of responsibility?
Or is the guy in the right seat basically just sitting there and staring out the window?
I'm trying to wrap my mind around how this all works...
I assume when you're being trained, you're being trained to fly "single pilot" and basically do everything yourself.
#2865
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: Left seat bizjet
Posts: 293
All flows and checklists are learned both single pilot and crew, which can be a bit awkward in a single pilot aircraft. It's your discretion as to what he does, but I always alternated legs and let them do take offs and landings, except for a few times with really bad weather. A couple were really good, most were average, only one was bad, and he improved with time. View it as a mentoring role. Remember these guys are at 250 hours when they start, and leave at 1000 TT.
Most were fantastic people, and I'm still friends with a couple. Some even came over to my house for BBQs and played Xbox with my kids. Good times!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Most were fantastic people, and I'm still friends with a couple. Some even came over to my house for BBQs and played Xbox with my kids. Good times!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#2866
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
With the exception of maybe the Bro because it's certified for 2 crew, the Korean FO program is more of a nuisance than anything. First officers don't have any real responsibility. They cannot preflight, you are still responsible if something gets overlooked or something goes wrong. For instance if the FO is monitoring the loading process and a plane gets put on its tail, you as the captain are going to be shown the door.
Yes you are taught 2 crew flows but there is no significant amount of 2 crew training, and there was zero CRM training when I was there, hopefully that has changed. It is still a very much single pilot environment and culture. The language barrier can be really hard at times, and they are low time pilots so more times than not, you're babysitting.
Yes you are taught 2 crew flows but there is no significant amount of 2 crew training, and there was zero CRM training when I was there, hopefully that has changed. It is still a very much single pilot environment and culture. The language barrier can be really hard at times, and they are low time pilots so more times than not, you're babysitting.
#2870
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: single pilot cargo, turboprop
Posts: 484
In recent years we have had more Koreans mentoring each other. They have friends who are ahead of them in the program, and can tell them what to expect. This has a huge impact.
I'm a firm believer in GIGO. If you treat them like a passenger, then that's what you will get for a year. If you take the time to mentor them, and run things like a real 2 crew environment, you might be surprised what you get.
Occasionally, I get an FO who is either very timid or unmotivated, in which case they may sit on their hands for the rest of the flight, but in most cases I find that they can at least be trained to do an ILS down to their minimum of a mile vis, and communicate with ATC in routine dialogue. In a few cases, I would recommend them to be an AMF captain, but I'd doubt they would take it over a Korean Air 737.
I'm a firm believer in GIGO. If you treat them like a passenger, then that's what you will get for a year. If you take the time to mentor them, and run things like a real 2 crew environment, you might be surprised what you get.
Occasionally, I get an FO who is either very timid or unmotivated, in which case they may sit on their hands for the rest of the flight, but in most cases I find that they can at least be trained to do an ILS down to their minimum of a mile vis, and communicate with ATC in routine dialogue. In a few cases, I would recommend them to be an AMF captain, but I'd doubt they would take it over a Korean Air 737.
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