Theaveragejoker

The MEC can vote to enact certain LOA’s without releasing them to the pilot group to vote.

MantisToboggan

Have to have PIC experience and a basic college education to make it to the biggest airline in the world?!? Gasp! The horrors! Fact is, most of the people flowing wouldn’t have a snowballs chance in helI if it weren’t for the flow. Count your lucky stars.

And the changes to the flow agreement were voted on, and agreed upon, by the unions at PSA and Envoy btw. Contract changes are normal. We wouldn’t have the flow if we didn’t agree to change our contract

Try applying outside the flow and tell me how easy it is to get hired. Way waaaay harder than 3 years of captain experience and a bogus communications degree bruh

Wink

So you think it's fair to strip our First Officers of the flow they were promised because management decided to arbitrarily change the standard? Their tenure counts for nothing? What about the sim instructors and program managers that were never allowed to get trained as Captains? F 'em bc its hard to get hired outside of the flow???

Majority of the FOs getting ready to flow did not become Captains for a variety of personal reasons and its only a handful who were unable to because of skill, aptitude, or attitude. They were promised a flow and I think they deserve a flow. It's not even a linear comparison between PDT and ENY/PSA because at our sister companies FOs are FORCED to upgrade at minimums. If the company didn't require them to become Captains and agreed it would be fine for them to flow as an FO, why should they be punished now after years of service?

Personally, I could give a damn less how hard it is to get hired outside the flow. The flow was probably a big reason people chose PDT and I think management and AA should hold up their end of the bargain. We have a great group of guys and girls here and I hope we all move on to bigger and better, especially when that was the promise to begin with. The only change to the flow the MEC should entertain is to increase it. Anything that harms our current pilots should be rejected.

MantisToboggan

No you’re right, those guys shouldn’t get hosed. Didn’t take into consideration that the other two also force you to upgrade. I’ll revise to say that I would be cool with it, as long as the guys who would have their flow date pushed back get grandfathered in

evrbodysmugglin

I don’t know why everyone is getting riled up about this stuff. There is zero negotiating going on right now.

We are staying at 60 jets for the time being. Flow is six. We are staffed. If you can hold an upgrade and want to have PIC on your resume then take an upgrade ASAP. We may be only upgrading 6-8/month in line with attrition for the next year.

If you have a golden ticket out of the muck. Then take it. I tell all new hires to apply at F9, NK, K4 as soon as line Qualified. These carriers have good contracts. Many captains there will be making 250+. With a DC retirement. Some would say that is a great income. If you are within 24 months of flow it becomes a personal choice.

When the downturn happens all the people who have never seen one will have their eyes opened on how bad hiring can be and wish they wouldn’t have passed on any interview let alone the big 3-5

Get out while you still can

Wesgoto

Speaking of bending over and taking it!!!! WTF is up with these lines? Stay away from piedmont

Lahey

I agree with ya.

Not sure that there are zero negotiations though. When they are at the table for these kind of discussions it’s not public knowledge.

OversoldCommute

There's always some kind of negotiation going on, just not necessarily anything as earth-shattering as last year's TA (which itself was not earth-shattering).

flysooner9

Are you new or something?

Lahey

Aren’t you new? Lol