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Old 09-10-2014, 08:07 AM   #21  
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Look at Pay for Training at Regionals. When I can through Comair, ACA, Conex, Commutair, ASA where ALL pay for training. Then all the sudden nobody wanted to go to those and they needed pilots. Baaaaam and then suddenly pay for training ended.

Same with crappy pay...... Those that will continue to have bad pay and a bad contract won't get people. You think CommutAir got a better contract by the goodness of there heart. hahahahahaha They(management) knew they were having a tuff time getting anyone to come.

PSA/Piedmont will see if they continue to get people. As of right now however there still filling classes.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:09 AM   #22  
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Republic, Compass and SkyWest have to set the bar. Not a tiny airline like Piedmont.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:25 AM   #23  
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Look at Pay for Training at Regionals. When I can through Comair, ACA, Conex, Commutair, ASA where ALL pay for training. Then all the sudden nobody wanted to go to those and they needed pilots. Baaaaam and then suddenly pay for training ended.

Same with crappy pay...... Those that will continue to have bad pay and a bad contract won't get people. You think CommutAir got a better contract by the goodness of there heart. hahahahahaha They(management) knew they were having a tuff time getting anyone to come.

PSA/Piedmont will see if they continue to get people. As of right now however there still filling classes.
The regionals need to take Pay For Training (PFT) to the next level. The regionals should increase first year pay to a livable level. To compensate for the increase cost, the regionals should reinstitute PFT for new hires. That way, the new hire would get a livable first year wage and the regional would get their cost increase offset by having the new hire PFT.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:27 AM   #24  
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The regionals need to take Pay For Training (PFT) to the next level. The regionals should increase first year pay to a livable level. To compensate for the increase cost, the regionals should reinstitute PFT for new hires. That way, the new hire would get a livable first year wage and the regional would get their cost increase offset by having the new hire PFT.

Mr. Brand X, what you've just typed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:44 AM   #25  
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Mr. Brand X, what you've just typed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
He wants the gubmint to "forgive" his 100k in student loans. Who says indentured servitude is dead. The beauty of his mess is, he will be in debt for his entire working life, and will most likely live, most of his life sleeping on a mattress on the floor in a rented apartment, paying the 100K student loan down, but at 6% he will just be treading water.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:55 AM   #26  
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Default The Domino Effect

"Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. "
I award you 10 points billyhomadison that was priceless
Now to the issue at hand! PIEDMONT pilots read LOA 19 understand what it does for your career, you and your family. Don't listen to all the 21 to 27 year old private pilots with an ATP endorsement limitation stuck in coffins corner. Vote accordantly or don't vote at all
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:22 AM   #27  
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My friends at Piedmont will not sacrifice their career for yours. Sorry bro. They held the line while the rest of their peers undercut each other, lied to each other, voted in 16 year contracts and other things. If they vote in this TA they will still have a better contract than most of the regional industry...
Do you realize that AAG wanted to get rid of Envoy's turboprop rates in the last TA's? Our ATR's are long gone. Why do you think they would ask for that? How much of a raise would our turboprop rates be for PDT in a merge?

Envoy's CA turboprop rates are roughly equivalent for PDT's 37-44 seat jet TA rates. Envoy's EMB140/145 blended rates are roughly equivalent to PDT's 60-76 seat jet TA rates. If they vote this TA in, their contract will still be WORSE than Envoy's bankruptcy deal (in which we took more concessions that we should have, because the old MEC never forced the 1113 filing.)

Quote:
...because nothing changes and they get a pure flow through.
Do you realize that Eagle spent a better part of the last 13 years in litigation and arbitration in an attempt to get AMR to comply with Letter 3/flow through agreements? The 100+ guys on property with AA numbers FINALLY went to American over 10 years after 9/11. The flow through has been nothing but an elusive carrot, and the only reason we are flowing 20 a month right now is due to one of Nicolau's arbitration decisions, and we even have a grievance pending on THAT because it should be 30/mo. If the rest of the regional industry hasn't learned from the mistakes of the Eagle/AA flow through, I don't know what to tell you. Pretty soon all the majors will be offering flow through at wholly owned regionals simply to keep them staffed. Giving up ANYTHING for the promise of flow is a folly, as the pilots of Eagle learned.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:42 AM   #28  
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Trinity, focus on the key parts of my statement. They won't sacrifice their jobs for yours nor should they. The dash 8's are retired in 2017 with no replacement. That's it.
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Old 09-10-2014, 10:27 AM   #29  
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Do you realize that AAG wanted to get rid of Envoy's turboprop rates in the last TA's? Our ATR's are long gone. Why do you think they would ask for that? How much of a raise would our turboprop rates be for PDT in a merge?

Envoy's CA turboprop rates are roughly equivalent for PDT's 37-44 seat jet TA rates. Envoy's EMB140/145 blended rates are roughly equivalent to PDT's 60-76 seat jet TA rates. If they vote this TA in, their contract will still be WORSE than Envoy's bankruptcy deal (in which we took more concessions that we should have, because the old MEC never forced the 1113 filing.)



Do you realize that Eagle spent a better part of the last 13 years in litigation and arbitration in an attempt to get AMR to comply with Letter 3/flow through agreements? The 100+ guys on property with AA numbers FINALLY went to American over 10 years after 9/11. The flow through has been nothing but an elusive carrot, and the only reason we are flowing 20 a month right now is due to one of Nicolau's arbitration decisions, and we even have a grievance pending on THAT because it should be 30/mo. If the rest of the regional industry hasn't learned from the mistakes of the Eagle/AA flow through, I don't know what to tell you. Pretty soon all the majors will be offering flow through at wholly owned regionals simply to keep them staffed. Giving up ANYTHING for the promise of flow is a folly, as the pilots of Eagle learned.
This is an excellent and dead nuts accurate post. Gospel.

Do you PDTpilotxx, really think the plan is either vote this in or AUG just makes you all disappear? Flying at eagle is going to AA because eagle can't staff it. We got people from all levels of the pilot list leaving mostly for better jobs. Vote any way you guys want, but I hate to see people make decisions based on faulty starting points or fear.
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Old 09-10-2014, 10:38 AM   #30  
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For anyone out there that's still succumbing to shiny jet syndrome...SNAP OUT OF IT!!!
**************************************

I'm sorry, but I have to chuckle when the prior generation of newbie RJ pilots, (who themselves, succumbed to SJS), chide the current generation of newbie RJ pilots for a perceived succumbing to SJS.

If you were hired as a newbie regional airline pilot after 9/11, you too aided in the degradation of the regional airline pay model. You took a job that paid peanuts, with no reasonable assumption that you would upgrade to a livable wage prior to 8 years, and you did it all in the hopes that you could make ends meet (while being a "real airline pilot") on F.O. pay, and that someday you would upgrade to RJ Captain and then eventually move on to the majors.

I dare say that many/most of today's newbies are a bit different. It's not the promise of a shiny new regional jet that entices them into now accepting the abysmal RJ starting pay. Many of them have shown tremendous restraint by resisting "SJS" over the years and refusing to become complicit in keeping the regional pilot pay scales so low. One could argue that today's new hire pilots have stayed away long enough to *CREATE* the pilot shortage!

While you were busy enjoying your shiny new regional jet and fancy pilot uniform, they quietly (and modestly) built their time, experience, and bank account in the less glamorous world of 91 and 135. And they have only recently decided to move on to the regionals because of the very reasonable assumption and high likelihood that they will upgrade to a livable wage in very short order.

For many of today's new hire regional airline pilots, it's not about "SJS". It's about UPGRADE TIME! It's about the livable wage that is typically found in the left seat,......regardless of how much "shiny" is left on the airplane. Clearly, there is a reason why some regional airlines have been very successful at filling new hire classes, month after month, while others have not. And it occurs to me that the promise of shiny new jets is not the determining factor.

Last edited by Slick111; 09-10-2014 at 11:18 AM.
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