pilotboy10

Moxie, don't worry about it. If you're a good helo pilot and you are smart/trainable then you won't have any problem. Yes, things come faster in jet training but it's not rocket surgery. You can do it. I went right through with no issues partnered with a military, multi-engine fixed wing guy. 121 environment is nothing special if you've been to combat. But do learn to keep radio transmissions short, fast and correct. That was the most challenging thing; flying the CRJ is a piece of cake.

Folove

I know we are working on it, but are we really going wait a year till we figure out PBS and new pay rates? I have heard 6 months from a couple sources. Today I read that a CP told a class that some time next year we’ll have something? Smh....That’s insane and unacceptable. That’s a year of falling behind. Longer than a year considering it takes people 3-4 months to finish all training and be on the line.

I doubt Envoy will tolerate not full classes for longer than a couple months. They will want to match quick, which I hope then we are almost FORCED to do the same or else we won’t attract a single person here. Plus, it wouldn’t be smart at all. Two WOs raise pay and PSA still hasn’t answered? It will be ugly here and the pilot group would be upset. When arent they mad though, right? 😏

I’m just saying, I’ve talked to a couple FOs and they are already planning on leaving after the completion of IOE. They don’t care about paying back the bonus at all. They’ll make more in the long run 🙃🙃🙃

Otterbox

Last time, AA let the WOs have problems staffing classes of 2 or 4 before they finally raised pay to top 25% of competition... they may not wait for things to get AS bad, but expect to see recruitment problems and retention problems at all of the WOs before AA gives management to OK to pay more... and fully expect PBS to be the string attached. If they get their way they’ll be able to maximize utilization of available pilots and save 20%+ on manning... which will probably also help to keep those flow #s down.

AboveAndBeyond

There is very little about this that makes sense. First of all, the CP's have absolutely nothing to do with any of the negotiating process. The CP that said this is a known troll that says stuff to get people talking about it. Don't listen to him. He also has been known to tell people that we are opening random new bases and it will be announced "next week".

If you listened to the last union conference call, you will know that it will likely take at least 6 months. This isn't going to be a simple "pay raise". It is going to be almost a full new contract. There are many things to negotiate including pay, scheduling, and several QOL issues. I expect to see something around May/June. It is not because anyone is dragging their feet, but that is how long these things take.

Envoy and Piedmont will be the same. It will take months, and we will likely all get the deal at the same time.

It has nothing to do with full classes. Everyone knows that the union and company are already meeting.

Why would we not continue having full classes until then? Our FO pay is very competitive and when combined with benefits, it is the same. All 3 WO will likely have full classes for the next 6 months while this is worked out.

Have you looked at what the first year pay for Endeavor is? Or First Officer pay in general there? Ours is almost the same. Depending on how much you work, ours could be more, especially when taking into consideration time on reserve. But we have several other benefits that they do not have. The pay is not a major factor for first officers. The pay discrepancy is mostly all on the captain side. With these new pay rates, the current Endeavor captain pay is about $20,000 more than at PSA. By the time that anyone in the school house now makes it to Captain, it is likely that PSA will be higher than Endeavor.

Endeavor first year pay is $50/hr, ours is $40/hr. But our first year bonus is more and our training pay is more. The amount in your paycheck at the end of the year is about the same.

PSA has about 200 pilots here that used to fly for Endeavor. Endeavor got bad and they all jumped ship to come to PSA. Now Endeavor raised pay and some PSA pilots are threatening to jump ship to there now? Why would you do that to your career? Pay rates change and things go back and forth. In the long run, pick that one that is going to get you to a legacy the fastest and get out of the regionals.

Jumping from regional to regional for instant gratification may seem like a good idea, but in the end, it is going to make for a terrible career.

This is different if you are at a bad place that is sinking. There are several of those right now.

With the changes in the industry, there are a few regionals that are rising to the top with pay, benefits, QOL, and are going to be the place to be. The 3 AA WO are in that group.

DoNoHarm

A friend from college interviewed with PSA this week. He said that on that day, we had 16 people interviewing. He asked for the first available class and they told him that the ATPCTP classes were full until February but they are working on getting more classes from CAE. If you already had your ATP, there were room for 3 more pilots in all of January and December was full.


It sounds like classes are still pretty full and will stay that way.

About half of the people in the interviews were from other regionals (Mesa, ExpressJet, Compass), a few were CFI's, and the rest flew cargo or smaller passenger airlines.

WhiteMorpheus

Give me an AA seniority number and industry-leading pay in exchange for PBS, SAP, and reasonable airframe/seat locks and you might be on to something.

If whatever "deal" we come up with doesn't put 95-100% of our pilots on mainline metal in 5 years or less, I'm not sure it's much of a deal.

But I'm the FNG, so I don't get a say.

Folove

People don’t care anymore. Pilots are in demand. They’ll easily jump ship again. Maybe not the ones who have been here a yea but new hires don’t care. They have nothing to lose. Pilots don’t care about bonuses anymore when EDV is offering permanent pay rates. The bonus we are offering are heavily taxed also.

Some not everyone who is awaiting a class date won’t stick around and wait till PSA has a class opening. They’ll jump ship and sit happy making $50 first year pay at another regional. They aren’t going to sit around for 6 months while PSA decides to figure out their contract issues. In those 6 months they’ll be gaining seniority at EDV. You’re underestimating some pilots IMO.

Folove

That’s good news. Now we will see how many actually wait for PSA instead of going elsewhere

BizJet

Like the others have said it's going to be EDV Pay = PBS.

Everyone can say "we're in demand", "don't give up anything", "we hold the cards", etc...

It's simple. AAG and PSA want a better managed pilot group for us to gain more and better flying. It has been told to us by both the Company and the Union. To do that means they have to do PBS or completely handicap SAP. Most likely outcome they choose is PBS, like it's been repeatedly told to us. PBS is a replacement to line bidding. SAP is a separate trip trade agreement. However, with PBS comes very little open time. Hence why AAG and PSA want PBS. Which means a handicapped SAP if there is even a SAP ability.

Currently PSA pilots can use the SAP for a 1000 different reasons. That's great and I love that aspect. It's one of the main reasons I came here. That said it also means we create a very statistically high amount of Open Time. Which means the company has to cover that basic flying by either R2 guys or reserves. If they have to use reserves to cover basic flying then it hurts us during IROPS, Sick Calls, MX, etc...

Reserves arn't meant to cover basic flying. RD2 BU line are meant to cover trips that got removed from RD1 guys because of training, blend, FLMA, MIL, left over basic flying, etc...

In the end we end up with reliability numbers that AAG doesn't like. Hence why we have gotten any new flying besides a few 200 routes to already covered cities and ex Air Wiskey YYZ. We also can't cover the additional 700 coming on property even with us growing.

I 100% want SAP to stay and PBS to never come. But this is a business and it only makes sense from my limited prospective.

Folove

Yep. I agree with ya....although we ain’t getting much of anything if we don’t fix our maintenance team issues. I feel sorry for those guys. They want us to grow yet don’t wanna pay our MX personnel....