PSA "Latest & Greatest"
11-23-2017, 01:42 AM
#1591
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 348
Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond
Several airlines have had full classes for the last several months. Endeavor has had full classes for awhile now, as has Envoy, Piedmont, and PSA. I have read on here that PSA Recruiter has said that PSA has had waitlists for classes.
The pay for first officers at Endeavor has not gone up, so I doubt it would really attract that many people (unless they don't understand what was voted in). The AA WO still have a flow, and Endeavor does not. AA will match the pay, and likely one-up them and make it even higher. So no real reason to be concerned with people not coming to PSA.
I would expect business as usual at the AA WO for at least 6-7 months. Everyone expects that the pay will be raised here and several other good benefits will be negotiated. If by that time we don't have something close to being signed, then something might change.
I have a friend in the latest class and he said that many of the new hires are from other airlines. Several of the lower paying ones or ones with no career progression jumped ship and came to PSA. That will likely continue.
The pay for first officers at Endeavor has not gone up, so I doubt it would really attract that many people (unless they don't understand what was voted in). The AA WO still have a flow, and Endeavor does not. AA will match the pay, and likely one-up them and make it even higher. So no real reason to be concerned with people not coming to PSA.
I would expect business as usual at the AA WO for at least 6-7 months. Everyone expects that the pay will be raised here and several other good benefits will be negotiated. If by that time we don't have something close to being signed, then something might change.
I have a friend in the latest class and he said that many of the new hires are from other airlines. Several of the lower paying ones or ones with no career progression jumped ship and came to PSA. That will likely continue.
People seem to not understand that pay rates are like a brick house, whereas bonuses to 'supplement' pay rates are like a house of cards.
11-23-2017, 04:01 AM
#1593
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by MaCrOs
The pay for the FOs has definitely gone up. All the premium pay (in our case that would be SDO, CCP, holiday pay) is calculated off of the pay rates, not bonuses.
People seem to not understand that pay rates are like a brick house, whereas bonuses to 'supplement' pay rates are like a house of cards.
People seem to not understand that pay rates are like a brick house, whereas bonuses to 'supplement' pay rates are like a house of cards.
Yes, taking the bonuses and putting them into hourly rates is a great thing, but for a first year pilot, the pay will be about the same. If a FO works 65 hours a month, like many like to do here, their paycheck will be substantially less if we were to have the same rates. If they work 90+ hours with SDO and CCP, then they would make more. Some would benefit, others would lose pay, but for the average pilot, it would be just about the same.
It really starts paying off huge dividends once you upgrade. The Captain pay at Endeavor is substantially more than PSA right now. PSA will have to do something to increase captain pay within the next several months.
Last edited by AboveAndBeyond; 11-23-2017 at 04:13 AM.
11-23-2017, 04:11 AM
#1594
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 348
Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond
Might want to ask all of the legacy airline pilots about how "brick house" the pay rates were over the last 15 years. Some have had hourly pay rate cuts of 50%.
Yes, taking the bonuses and putting them into hourly rates is a great thing, but for a first year pilot, the pay will be about the same. It really starts paying off huge dividends once you upgrade. The Captain pay at Endeavor is substantially more than PSA right now. PSA will have to do something to increase captain pay within the next several months.
Yes, taking the bonuses and putting them into hourly rates is a great thing, but for a first year pilot, the pay will be about the same. It really starts paying off huge dividends once you upgrade. The Captain pay at Endeavor is substantially more than PSA right now. PSA will have to do something to increase captain pay within the next several months.
Legacies cut some pay rates due to going through bankruptcies etc. Even with the pay cuts they still made livable wages (it sucked of course). Regionals didn't.
Landscape has changed quite a lot since then and good luck touching the pay rates these days... Even bonuses for that matter. But... bonuses can be taken away a whole lot easier then pay rates.
11-23-2017, 07:40 AM
#1595
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by MaCrOs
Happy Thanksgiving!
Here is the December grid.
Here is the December grid.
a well put together spreadsheet.
The 3 years to hold a line as a captain is mostly from the huge number of FOs hired between spring 2014 through the winter of 2015. Once the early 2015 hires start holding captain lines, the time to hold a Captain line will drop down to about 2 years, providing six months of reserve for someone that upgrades at the 1.5 year mark.
11-23-2017, 11:53 AM
#1598
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond
Several airlines have had full classes for the last several months. Endeavor has had full classes for awhile now, as has Envoy, Piedmont, and PSA. I have read on here that PSA Recruiter has said that PSA has had waitlists for classes.
The pay for first officers at Endeavor has not gone up, so I doubt it would really attract that many people (unless they don't understand what was voted in). The AA WO still have a flow, and Endeavor does not. AA will match the pay, and likely one-up them and make it even higher. So no real reason to be concerned with people not coming to PSA.
I would expect business as usual at the AA WO for at least 6-7 months. Everyone expects that the pay will be raised here and several other good benefits will be negotiated. If by that time we don't have something close to being signed, then something might change.
I have a friend in the latest class and he said that many of the new hires are from other airlines. Several of the lower paying ones or ones with no career progression jumped ship and came to PSA. That will likely continue.
The pay for first officers at Endeavor has not gone up, so I doubt it would really attract that many people (unless they don't understand what was voted in). The AA WO still have a flow, and Endeavor does not. AA will match the pay, and likely one-up them and make it even higher. So no real reason to be concerned with people not coming to PSA.
I would expect business as usual at the AA WO for at least 6-7 months. Everyone expects that the pay will be raised here and several other good benefits will be negotiated. If by that time we don't have something close to being signed, then something might change.
I have a friend in the latest class and he said that many of the new hires are from other airlines. Several of the lower paying ones or ones with no career progression jumped ship and came to PSA. That will likely continue.
How do you explain the fact, that no regional, I mean no regional, ever matched the bonus that Endeavor has, $23k, every year, for EVERY pilot. While that argument was hot, everybody said it expires in 2018, but now that it has been rolled into bonus, they say its no raise. No other regional pays more money than Endeavor, and haven't had since 2015.
But yes, Endeavor does not have a flow, no lies there. It has money.
11-23-2017, 12:29 PM
#1599
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Squak1200
PSA has flow, Endeavor doesn't. Very true. Those who want flow, should go to AA WO. But everything else, wrong. You say new Endeavor TA is no raise, and then you say AA WO will match the that pay. What is there to match if there was no raise.
How do you explain the fact, that no regional, I mean no regional, ever matched the bonus that Endeavor has, $23k, every year, for EVERY pilot. While that argument was hot, everybody said it expires in 2018, but now that it has been rolled into bonus, they say its no raise. No other regional pays more money than Endeavor, and haven't had since 2015.
But yes, Endeavor does not have a flow, no lies there. It has money.
How do you explain the fact, that no regional, I mean no regional, ever matched the bonus that Endeavor has, $23k, every year, for EVERY pilot. While that argument was hot, everybody said it expires in 2018, but now that it has been rolled into bonus, they say its no raise. No other regional pays more money than Endeavor, and haven't had since 2015.
But yes, Endeavor does not have a flow, no lies there. It has money.
Like I said, the CA pay is a huge raise. The FO is about the same, and can be less.
I am very happy for Endeavor, and I hope that we get the same thing. But we will keep the flow too.
11-23-2017, 12:44 PM
#1600
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond
What is first year FO take home pay with the new TA versus the old? If someone only works 65 hours of credit a month, will they make more or less money overall as compared to the current structure with the bonuses?
Like I said, the CA pay is a huge raise. The FO is about the same, and can be less.
I am very happy for Endeavor, and I hope that we get the same thing. But we will keep the flow too.
Like I said, the CA pay is a huge raise. The FO is about the same, and can be less.
I am very happy for Endeavor, and I hope that we get the same thing. But we will keep the flow too.
You will keep the flow, but you never matched the bonus (for every pilot), which was said, that will be matched, Endeavor already moved on to pay rates while AA WO were "matching" the bonus (again, for ALL pilots), so there is no reason why your company will match these payrates. And if you are going to advertise, you WILL match payrate, Endeavor says they will one up you again, which they have in recent times, so atleast their claim has some facts to it.
So please, advertise your flow, not false claims, if you had matched the bonus (for all, well you know what I mean), perhaps you could have advertised that you will match the pay rates as well.
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