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Pilot Shortage: Real or Nah?

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Old 07-09-2019 | 04:43 AM
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Actually, the shortage is very real for a number of reasons.
The first was due to the 1500 hour rule. It created a gap in available labor. Each year a number of pilots would reach 250 hours either through college or on their own. The regional airlines - which historically hired at around 2500-4000 hours to fly Beech 1900’s had been chipping away at wages, benefits and working conditions causing fewer and fewer pilots to enter as a profession. As the compensation lowered so did the entry requirements until they were essentially hiring ink wet brand new commercial pilots into fairly large transport category regional jets as their first job since flying Skyhawks and archers. This only lasted a few years... basically 2006-2011. Historically it had always taken considerably more hours before being hired to fly jets at a part 121 airline. An accident in 2009 drew national attention to how low the experience level had dropped to and legislation changed the requirements to obtain an ATP which now requires additional experience and more specialized training than it previously did. They also changed the 121 reg from requiring CMEL for a First Officer to requiring an ATP. What we all call the 1500 hour rule is more accurately described as the ATP rule since the ATP is what is required and it may be obtained at various total hours.
When the ATP rule went into effect it created a 4 year dry spell. We are now back to where we were before with a fresh supply of eligible pilots being produced each year.
That shortage - and the current one - were caused by the low wages, low benefits and poor working conditions keeping otherwise eligible pilots from taking those jobs. As wages, benefits and working conditions improved pilots returned to accept those jobs.
So where is the shortage now then?
From a legal standpoint with age 65, 41% of all active commercial pilots retire in the next 10 years. Over the past 3 decades there has been a 30% decline in licensed pilots according to the FAA. Boeing forecasts that there will be a need for 790,000 new pilots from now to 2037. That’s an average of 43,888 needed each year globally. The US major airline retirements over the next 10 years is over 30,000. That’s 3,000 a year.
Will the Delta, United, American, UPS, Fedex ever have a pilot shortage, no. But every other job under them will feel the pinch in various ways. To get those few legacy jobs you’ll still have to differentiate yourself from the thousands applying to get in. Hardest hit will be the regionals and smaller charter outfits. LCC will see significant pay, benefit and working condition improvements to keep their pilots from leaving to the legacy jobs. This will - and already is - making places like JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, Kalitta & Omni very viable career alternatives. This trend will only continue. Last will be regionals. They will expand their preferential hiring and flow through programs with their mainline partners rather than increase wages and working conditions. Eventually they’ll be forced to, but that’s still a while away and with planes like the A220 much of the profitable longer regional flying routes will be pulled back in house to mainline to allow the regionals to shrink without cancellations.

There Ends my crystal ball.... for now

Some reference

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/co...commerce-world

Last edited by Cujo665; 07-09-2019 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 07-09-2019 | 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
And that’s REALLY why the legacies will fall all over themselves to take some 45 year old retired O-5 or O-6 with less than 2500 hours who flew an A-10 until he made major and then flew a desk for the past 10 years over someone with 2500 hours of 121 time from one of their own regional feeders.
I totally agree with you. I find it so ironic that we get our "thousands of hours of experience" striving to differentiate ourself with training dept, flight ops dept, union work, volunteer.. Flying their pax so we can one day be good enough to.... Wait for it.... Fly their pax!

Case in point, I was at WAI last spring and said hi to American, the gal looked at my resume with 2 masters degrees and 3.5+ gpas during all college/grad coursework, training dept, union & community volunteer work, 1400 121 tpic (a good portion of which was gained flying AA ticketed pax) and told me to look around at everyone else at the table area and find a way to differentiate myself lol.. Handed me my resume back and that was that. Being the snowflake that I am, I was demoralized and mildly humiliated.

What you're saying makes total sense
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Old 07-09-2019 | 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyLeeSwagger
I totally agree with you. I find it so ironic that we get our "thousands of hours of experience" striving to differentiate ourself with training dept, flight ops dept, union work, volunteer.. Flying their pax so we can one day be good enough to.... Wait for it.... Fly their pax!

Case in point, I was at WAI last spring and said hi to American, the gal looked at my resume with 2 masters degrees and 3.5+ gpas during all college/grad coursework, training dept, union & community volunteer work, 1400 121 tpic (a good portion of which was gained flying AA ticketed pax) and told me to look around at everyone else at the table area and find a way to differentiate myself lol.. Handed me my resume back and that was that. Being the snowflake that I am, I was demoralized and mildly humiliated.

What you're saying makes total sense
To your point --

Everyone looks at the retirement numbers at the majors and says "Wow, there are over 30k retirements over the next decade with just over 20k regional pilots, everyone will have a job."

But.

How many U/LCCs pilots have their apps in? How many corporate or former airline pilots are joining the regionals now to prime their resumes with current 121 time for the legacies? How many Air Force, Navy, and Marine jet pilots are leaving each year to take those jobs?

There certainly is opportunity - it isn't stagnant by any means. However, it's just as competitive as ever.
I think most everyone with a clean record and well-rounded app will be able to move beyond a regional if that's their goal, but you may have to settle along the way.
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Old 07-09-2019 | 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by UnprotectdPilot

Is there any precedent or reason to believe competitive minimums for major airline gigs will come down as the retirements continue?


Discuss.
Of course they will come down.
Supply. Demand. Simple economics.

The question is just how much and how it will echo through the food chain. The majors can pretty much snap their fingers and get plenty of acceptable candidates. Think the bigger question is what happens if regionals/LCC can't staff themselves.
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Old 07-09-2019 | 07:58 AM
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There is a shortage coming, but it’s not here yet. The big hiring spree and pay increases at the regionals were a result of the factors that rickair777 mentioned above. Give it a couple more years before things really start to pick up. It’s all a guess though as to how the majors decide to handle it i.e. flow, training programs, bringing routes in house etc.
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Old 07-09-2019 | 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer
I just look at the numbers. In the next decade, there’s something like 30,000 pilots retiring at the majors, but there’s only about regional 20,000 pilots. Some of which won’t jump ship. And those are just for retirement, not accounting growth.

Disclaimer: I don’t have the exact figures in front of me so those are rounded numbers. Don’t kill me lol
There are a ton of retirements on the horizon, but the number of replacements isn’t a static list. There is a kid out there with a brand new drivers license who could be a competitive applicant at the legacies in 10 years. The business plan could alter demand for pilots as well. Increased passenger loads could lead to reduced frequency on larger planes, affecting the demand for crews. I don’t think that the sky is falling by any means, but there has never been a better time to be starting out than right now. Of course, compared to what we just came out of, everything looks good.
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Old 07-09-2019 | 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Yet hiring away their pilots would make the situation worse, not better. Because those pilots would be replaced by new - more junior - pilots who would be costing the ULCC/LCC even LESS money because they would be more junior and even lower on the Payscale.

A lot of people seem to believe that the majors actually WANT to populate. Their pilot group with 25 year olds so they wouldn’t have to find a replacement for 45 years. Well they don’t. An initial type-rating is actually pretty cheap, not a whole lot more money than annual recurrency training. And it isn’t as if a 25 year old pilot would only get one type rating during his/her career at a major. Recruiting replacement pilots is not a major expense either. If major airlines really had their druthers, they’d probably take nothing but 45 year old retired military pilots, some one who already has one pension and government provided health care. Somebody with a long history of NOT being in a union.

Then they’d have them be an FO for ten years, upgrade them for their last ten years, then give them their gold watch and send them on their way. They’d only be at the top rung of the salary ladder for eight of those years, whereas someone hired at age 25 would spend 28 years there. Do the math. The ANNUAL savings in pay woukd more than cover the costs of providing ‘new’ retirees with a type rating. And that’s REALLY why the legacies will fall all over themselves to take some 45 year old retired O-5 or O-6 with less than 2500 hours who flew an A-10 until he made major and then flew a desk for the past 10 years over someone with 2500 hours of 121 time from one of their own regional feeders.

It’s not like they need to hedge their bets they may need to bomb or strafe someone, it’s that they are making money on the regional pilot right where he is, and a succession of retired military old farts will keep the payline down.

And yeah, while they are really not above hiring away some people from an ULCC, what they would really like to see is those people stick around long enough that the demographics of the ULCC become - like that of the legacy - MORE SENIOR so the ULCC won’t have near as much of a payroll advantage. Bad enough that a 12 year legacy captain costs 50% more than a 12 year LCC captain, but the AVERAGE pilot at an ULCC may only be at the three year point in pay while the legacy has thousands of senior pilots and an average seniority if 20+ years.

With both airlines flying the same equipment and buying fuel from the same vendors a more junior workforce is the big advantage the LCC/ULCC has.
Which Legacy has captains costing 50% more than LCC Captains? I’m guessing Southwest and JetBlue are the two main LCC and they both pay 12 year captains ~$270/hr vs. The Legacies paying ~$285/hr for the same equipment.

Maybe 1,500 out of 15,000 at any given Legacy are WB Captains costing 30% more than LCC Captains but still not 50% more. The majority of Legacy captains cost about 5% more over LCC captains if we are just talking straight pay scales.

I’m not trying to be pedantic, just seemed like 50% was way too large of an over reach.
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Old 07-09-2019 | 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Itsajob
There are a ton of retirements on the horizon, but the number of replacements isn’t a static list. There is a kid out there with a brand new drivers license who could be a competitive applicant at the legacies in 10 years. The business plan could alter demand for pilots as well. Increased passenger loads could lead to reduced frequency on larger planes, affecting the demand for crews. I don’t think that the sky is falling by any means, but there has never been a better time to be starting out than right now. Of course, compared to what we just came out of, everything looks good.
Exactly. It’s not as if no one else is going to become a pilot in the next decade and it’s a finite list of pilots to backfill the retirements. You make some other great points above too. Just a small example, the USAF is trying to up it’s pilot production from about a 1000 a year to 1500. In a decade, all those “extra” guys will start being at their ADP (airline decision point) too. If The industry remains stable and pay is good, people will invest time and $$$ to become pilots and there will be no “dire” shortage.
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Old 07-09-2019 | 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AFTrainerGuy
Exactly. It’s not as if no one else is going to become a pilot in the next decade and it’s a finite list of pilots to backfill the retirements. You make some other great points above too. Just a small example, the USAF is trying to up it’s pilot production from about a 1000 a year to 1500. In a decade, all those “extra” guys will start being at their ADP (airline decision point) too. If The industry remains stable and pay is good, people will invest time and $$$ to become pilots and there will be no “dire” shortage.
There are fewer people wanting to enter this profession and others that require a large personal and financial input before any chance of seeing a reward. There is a different culture now. I’m not going to call it entitlement, millennial, or anything like that, but there is a different mindset now. The industry will eventually be forced to adapt. Until that happens, life at the regionals is going to stink, and life at the legacies is going to be gravy. The concessions are over, it’s time to get paid and claw back what we gave up over the years.
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Old 07-09-2019 | 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Itsajob
There are fewer people wanting to enter this profession and others that require a large personal and financial input before any chance of seeing a reward. There is a different culture now. I’m not going to call it entitlement, millennial, or anything like that, but there is a different mindset now. The industry will eventually be forced to adapt. Until that happens, life at the regionals is going to stink, and life at the legacies is going to be gravy. The concessions are over, it’s time to get paid and claw back what we gave up over the years.
As much as I'd like this to be true, classes at most the regionals are full and backlogged. It's financially justifiable nowadays to pursue it and I think there is enough desperation in the american system nowadays it drives people to take on huge risk, which the airline career is. Many of my coworkers are millennials. They are showing up in suffcient numbers but perhaps not as much as in prior generations. Still, filling the ranks is a drop in the bucket. I think 135 and the bottom barrel 121 are the only ones feeling the pinch. Will that change? Anyone's guess. The regional hiring mania of 2014-2018 has seemed to cool off.
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