Has anyone read one of the other threads on here that talked about pilots having to pay back their training cost after being furloughed? Also, I am unsure why mesaba was offering Time of Without Pay to some saab people, from all Ive heard that normally is a first step to possible furloughs. If anyone has anymore information concerning either feel free, Im just asking questions about what I read on here.

 

is it possible for you to read a post before you post your ignorant response? if you had read one of your fellow employees post (i quoted it for you), you would see we were both correct. no one said there was a permanent stop on the transfer of planes. also if you had read our post you would see that we dont care if you take those planes. with the delta flying we still have a net gain of planes that we cant staff.

and you think mesaba isn't like pinnacle??? how long have you been there, 6 months. you no nothing of this business if you think we are so different. i remember picketing with you guys over 2 years ago when you voted to strike. you guys were just as ****ed at your management as we are at ours. you need to educate yourself about the red tail family before you start thinking you have it all good over there. it is all good right now, but things change quickly. maybe you need to read this website and eductate yourself. then come back and tell me how different we are.

http://mesabaf2f.org/index.htm

how quickly you forget, or maybe you never knew.

i really encourage you to read every page on that site. management was selling you guys up the creek, people were getting furloughed, they wanted to reduce the guarantee hours, etc, etc... its all the same.

i will even do a little of the work for you.

http://mesabaf2f.org/pressreleases.asp

http://mesabaf2f.org/openissues.asp

 

The training contract enforcement debacle was indeed true. The company attempted to charge the guys who were staring a furlough in the face for the balance of the training contract if they quit before their furlough date. In the end, the company backed off and ate some serious humble pie. You don't have to worry about that anymore because there is no training contract (unless you were a street CA).

As for TOWOP... why would you think we would start furloughing? We are in the middle of growing... we need everybody. That's why we are still hiring! TOWOP is a way to save money when there are too many reserves.

They beefed up the saab numbers early on so that the fleet could still operate while many guys were leaving the saab to fly the jets. Combine that with the initial 2 month delay in the 200s arriving, the training backlog and the captain seatlocks I think their plan backfired slightly. Thus, the need for street captains and the releasing of the seatlocks.

With the 200 staffing nearly complete, the 900 will continue to pull saab CAs to the jet ranks. When the training bubble gets back to normal, the saab will then be sufficiently staffed and things will settle down. Until then, there isn't any need to have 30 reserves not flying and getting paid to sit around. Therefore... TOWOP.

In the past, when we were shrinking, TOWOP would be the precursor to voluntary furloughs and invol furloughs. Those were different times. I wouldn't be too worried about TOWOP at this point. Welcome to Mesaba and enjoy the ride.

 

Airsupport... you sir are way out of line. You don't need to educate me on the trials and tribulations of Ch11. I lived it. I also lived through the 2001-2004 contract debacle, the virtual strike, 9/11, furloughs, recalls and re-furloughs, 6 years in the right seat and all the other BS that happened long before you even knew who Pinnacle was. Thanks though for giving me the link to F2F, reminds me of all my volunteering to make F2F happen.

No, Mesaba isn't perfect. We have issues between labor and mgmt. Indeed we are both regional feed for NWA. We are the launching point for our careers. But, Mesaba and Pinnacle are VERY different companies. Maybe it's you that need the education of the past.

 

you obviously didn't read your own unions web page. you could put pinnacle's name everywhere it said mesaba and it is the same thing we are going through right now, EVERY BIT OF IT. from management trying to screw us over, to alpa pledging 2 mil for strike funds.

never said mesaba or pinnacle were perfect. mesaba and pinnacle are different companies RIGHT NOW. you guys went through the mess first, now it is our turn. we are the same, just at different times in the cycle nwa likes to put us all through. and in 2-3 years the cycle will repeat itself and you guys will once again be the ones getting burned and getting ready to strike while pinnacle will be growing. then it will be our turn again. its been like this for over a decade and wont change anytime soon. hopefully i will have moved on before then.

i am not trying to hijack the thread, what i am trying to do is let you know (if you really have been at mesaba that long) that mesaba and pinnacle are the same thing. red tail step childs that have the same problems at different times.

and if you did volunteer for the f2f program then i probably saw you at some events.

here is another website for you to remember

http://www.mesabalabor.org/history.php

i found these in an old email your mec sent me when asking for people to picket with you guys.

 

Guys, stop bickering. You are both good guys caught up in the grips of greedy airline management tactics. Pinnacle management sucks but then from what I hear, so did Mesaba few years ago. We need to support each other, not tear each other apart. I've met pinnacle pilots and they are bunch of great people just like Mesaba pilots. Right now, pinnacle guys are going through some rough times, so let's be supportive.

My prediction is that if NWA merges with DAL, Pinnacle will wind up getting additional NWA domestic flights along with Mesaba and Compass. That is alomost certain. This means, reduction of 50 seat RJs and more 76 seat RJs for the short haul and then who knows.

 

Look, you're missing the point. Mesaba and Pinnacle are very different companies from top to bottom. From training, safety, infastructure, QOL, facilities and the list goes on. I realize we are regional airlines and are the step children of NWA and in that sense we are indeed the same. But being Mesaba and Pinnacle goes far deeper than what's painted on the side of our planes and whose turn it is to be at the whipping post.

I don't need you to tell me about what is going on and what has happened at Mesaba, nor do I need to prove to you that I really have been around the block at XJ. I wish you all the best of luck in your contract fight. I know how you feel, what its like and how I don't wish that crap on anyone.

BTW, how was it that you attended XJ F2F events when you've been at Pinnacle for 2.5 years? Just curious.

 

http://mesabaf2f.org/index.htm

http://mesabaf2f.org/pressreleases.asp

http://mesabaf2f.org/openissues.asp

http://www.mesabalabor.org/history.php

yeah man im not trying to bicker, just bugs me when the people i picketed with to help save their jobs are telling me that they have it so much better than i do, when just a few years ago it wasn't true. maybe if people read these links that i dug up from an old email it will educate people about where mesaba has been and how the pinnacle pilots stood by them in their trying times. i still have the sticker on my bag that says:


i guess i am just looking for the same respect and support that i gave you guys, not the pinnacle bashing that seems to be prevelant.

 

http://www.mesabalabor.org/history.php

i did several of the picketing events. i also went to the redbirds ball game(still have the t-shirt) in mem. not sure if those were the f2f events, so if they weren't then i guess i never participated in an f2f event, i just thought i did.

 

Come on dude... not at ANYTIME have I bashed Pinnacle or disrespected you. Lay off the melodrama. I also have NEVER said I am better than you because I work at XJ. I simply said that we are different airlines and that maybe you need to stop posting stuff based on rumor when it comes to XJ. You're the one that seems to think I don't know what I am talking about and even suggest that I'm posting lies and untruths as to what I've done and gone through at XJ.

Thanks for your support during our CH11 woes. F2F disbanded when our contract was signed in 2004 and never ended up on a real strike. The events during Ch11 were labor coalition events. Either way... thanks again.