There is just way too much stuff on this thread that needs addressing, on both sides of the argument. First the easy stuff. You guy's who can't or chose not to spell correctly and than leave "i" in lower case, learn to type and use the spell check. I can't spell and sometime run on sentences but I do proof read and i (re)write and make corrections, and, yes, still sometimes I don't put together a thought as clearly or as grammicly correct as I could. Take the time and stop giving your critic's ammo.
Second, both Kill Bill and Capt Drew are bitter, in the case of Kill Bill it might be understandable, I think Drew does it for effect. In any case both should not get so rapped around the axel about thier lot in life. Try to see the glass half full instead of half empty. Life is too short to dwell on things you personally can't change. I really hope (in the case of KB) that his flying is not one of the better things going on in his life. Enjoy the majority of life that is not flying
As for The pilots wife, you need to better educate yourself about the economics of supply and demand, re: pilots. We are not in a GLOBAL market place. We do not compete with Indiains, Chinese or anyone else for flying labor within the context of domestic flying. We do compete, to some degree on INTL flying, but, at least for the time being we are protected from outside the USA for internal flying. As far as lower paid pilots pulling down pilot pay; it is true, to the degree anyone who flys for less has the affect of bring down the average pay of all. What KB and Drew fail to mention is, that, in accepting pay cuts (as the legacy guy's have done) they too are part of the problem. But what do you expect them to do?? Let years invested in thier employer go up in smoke so some other pilot group's (airline) will not struggle and they can prosper
Lastly, you guy's who don't see (or more likely chose not to see) the adverse affect our elected leadership is having on our industry are, (in your own way) part of the problem. Labor in America, not just aviation, but all labor, is facing the most anti-worker government in recent history. You may chose to support them because of other "issues" near and dear to your heart, but they are hosing us all, left, right, and center. I can only laugh at my collieges who support GWB because he has lowered thier tax rates. Oh yea he's lower it, your paying a lot less taxes than you did under the Democrats, the difference is, you didn't have to shop at Walmart 10 years ago, now you do
Anyway just my thoughts as I wait to move my tin can, for the Man.

 

dckozak,
First and foremost, your last post was loaded with spelling errors and typos. Those in glass houses.........
Now, as far as the US airline industry being a global competitor, your right. On the other hand, I think the point that was trying to be made as far as the label "global" is that the airline industry isn't the only place where salaries are on the decline, thus no need to blame the new pukes. Since you bring up India, ask any technology geek in the country about it and you'll get a pretty harsh response. THAT my friend is global.
Lets keep in mind too that our non-affected domestic market here in the US has a large percentage of its flights being flown by aircraft leased or bought from a large European conglomerate. Again, American jobs cut in half now that our in-house aircraft supplier is no longer the only top dog.
Bottom line is there are several factors bringing down the industry. I certainly don't blame KB and Drew for accepting pay cuts but when low cost bookings by passengers on the internet began to spring up, everyone thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It should never have been allowed to happen. SWA didn't cave in and they are still reaping the benefits.

 

captain drew and kill bill

You guys are absoluting stunning. I read in another place in this forum, hanger talk, about pilots cars and you two talk about owning an acura nsx, mercedes cl320, and other fine expensive automobiles. Then you come on hear and complain about your pay being dropped. Get a life you hypocrits. There are families starving out there and other families are working two minimum wage jobs to survive while you sit there and shop for your next worthless car.

I also get a laugh when you people on hear try to make an internet forum an english class. If you guys even took an english class in the last 30 years you might have learned something about responding to questions with thought out responses; not attack the poster who asked the question. They call that ad hominen, which is a common alternate used by cheap laywers who have no case for there argument.

Let see how these guys respond next, maybe another insult to make themselves feel better about being hypocrits.

 

You spilled the beans! I am just pulling the chains of folks whose chains desperately need a BIG yank <g> Many of them don’t have the vaguest clue as to what they are talking about. Case in point:
I was too stunned to comment that she was not aware that every union contract that I have ever heard of keeps foreign pilots from competition in our domestic system. For now, pilots don’t operate in a “Global market place. “PW” do a Google on “Cabotage” and learn something. Your not knowing that makes me pretty much discount all the rest of the rant.
Keep laughing, I guess. This is where we SERIOUSLY part company. Name me ONE thing positive that Klinton/Gore did for labor!? Name me one thing that Democrats do for Blacks that make them so blindly loyal at the ballot box? Same difference.

You are SO knee jerk that Democrats=labor, that you miss the fact that they DON’T -ANYMORE! They take your vote for granted, just like the blacks. Klinton shut down (http://www.iht.com/articles/1997/02/17/fly.t_1.php) the AAL pilot’s strike by Presidential Order in 1997, as I reacall.

If “Democrats” were of the Harry Truman, John Kennedy (when I WAS one) ilk, I would not have much issue . .BUT. . we are not talking “Democrats” any longer. We have Godless, Humanist-Secularist anti-American Socialists, with their ACLU thugs tearing down the very fabric of our society; doing everything in their power to remake it into Amerika; THEIR vision of an ‘anything goes’ 3rd World place.

As far as I am concerned, we are right in the middle of a major Culture War, and the Democrats ARE the vile, evil and dangerous to our way of life enemy!

If “Democrats” intend to remain a viable party, capable of winning elections in the future, they need to shake off the radical Left Wing and let them form their own party.

Being an airline pilot is a schizophrenic thing. You ARE ‘Labor’ ..BUT you should also be smart enough to be swayed by issues which are FAR more critically important to our values, culture and way of life than “what have you done for me lately”. Government IS too big, too powerful and too overbearing on our personal lives. We don’t need to screw it up further by giving Socialists MORE sway over us.

 

Ok, for the record, despite, what I said earlier, I would use a spell checker if I had one to use. I'm on a public access computer, without a workable SP so you will have to endure my "true" ability (or lack there of) to spell.
I will only address the political end of this post (unable to cut the rest due to ignorance ) . I know this isn't the correct forum so I won't "stray" long.
If you think your "buds on the hill" the one in control, not the un-American ones (in YHO) that sit on the otherside of the isle, are equally un labor than I guess we have little to argue about. I disagree, but that is opinion. If you think the Republicans are not undermining our culture with the skewing of the tax code, way in favor of the richest Americans, than your not paying attention to the news. Of I forgot, the "news" is not as it is reported (by the liberal press), but what Dick, Don, and POTIS said it is. "Wire taps, I don't need no congressional oversite !", "There are WMD...... oh can't find them......well it doesn't matter, we're here to bring freedom to the peace loving people of the Middle East". "how much?? isn't 200 BILLION worth it (and counting) worth it to free Iraq from the arms of Saddam??"

This speech is over
We can now return to the original programming, thank you

 

Not blaming new pukes. I would have done the same
If anything (or any one) is to blame its the lack of clout that labor has to affect and mantain the QOL that many of us (had) come to expect for working any hour of the day, any day of the year (including holidays, with a premum like many people get )
If you guy's want to help stop the slide, organize your group (if not so already), get involved in the union (when you get one) and SUPPORT the union with, WHAT EVER IT TAKES to get and receive the pay, retirement, healthcare, and other QOL idems nessary to make your career the one you though it should be

 

Acura NSX
Mercedes
come on here
Hypocrites
Internet
English
Ad Hominem (http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graph...hom/adhom.html)
This is not MySpace.com or a Blog for the Clearasil crowd. Airline pilots are supposedly college graduates and professionals. Many posting here do not fit in by virtue of the obvious lack of professionalism displayed in their posts. What more can be said?
Hypocrites
Another, sad, recent product of our Government Skools. Life is a series of many choices and “judgements”, but the Socialists running our institutions propagandize, instilling that you certainly can’t ‘judge’. You were made into a little Socilaist by your upbringing. I chose NOT to be.

So, by virtue of what you have been taught, you hold someone who has significantly achieved in our society accountable and try to lay on a guilt trip?

If there are people out there working minimum wage, THAT is certainly NOT MY problem -and I don’t lose any sleep over it! You arrive at the position in life you find yourself in due to the decisions, choices and judgements YOU make -every day! Not my fault if folks have made poor choices or not taken advantage of the blessings this country affords everyone. In this country, Public Education, for what it is worth, is available to EVERYONE. I got one! Everything good in life issues out of getting as much education as possible. And then . .USING IT!

Most of what I have achieved was by virtue of ‘outside’ striving. Flying was something I wanted to do since I was 5 and it was nice that someone wanted to pay me for it. While it lasted it was the fun I thought it would be and the remuneration, though not top rung, was ‘decent’. BUT, most of my assets came from real hard work -and risk taking in the capital market, where I could have lost -just as well as earned a good return on capital.

If you need an antacid after hearing us talk about the ‘toys’ . . take it .. and bug off!

 

When you use the word "Socialist", I can only assume that you mean Democrats. Sorry Bud, but just to clue you in, Democrats are not in charge of anything. Just thought I should point that out. If you are angry with the way this country is being run, then you should take a peek at your voter registration card. There where it says Republican, yeah you voted for exactly who is running the show. That being said...who's to blame for this "Socialist" mess we are in?

 

Right on, erjguy, give to drew, don't have time, gotta help pay for his
retirement

 

drew

You finally respond with an answer; I agree with some of it. You are right that people make the bed they lay in, But if you are insisting that i am one of these lackies that like to complain then you are wrong. I am 25 with a wife and two kids. I have worked and gone to school full time to support my family and I have managed with out borrowing the money to put myself through college and currently in flight school to become an instructor. This is my plan to gain enough hours to become an airline pilot.

If you think you deserve to spend money on lavish cars that cost in the 80k range then by all means do it. The next time you want to make comments as how the industry is dropping pay to mcdonalds standereds think again how many hours you would have to work at minimum wage to buy one of those cars.

I do not want to turn this into a political forum but my opinion on government is as long as there is money to be made for politicans all of them will be dirty and corrupt. Both sides of the fence are more interested in the next dollar to be made for themselves then helping the country on a whole. Education is the key to making this country better but not one of these A******* will fund it enough. The United States is not the highest educated society anymore; that should tell everybody something. In the 50's and 60's when people talked about how great things were, was when we had the most socialists society yet. I may be wrong with my terms but I am referring to the strength of unions and how the government had the rich held down.

I do not need an antacid for all the toys, you need to take reality pill about what is important in life and what is not.