Bubba

I was flying out of Hamilton, Ontario (CYHM) the other night and when I called for my clearance, the response was a full route clearance with no heads up…. “Cleared to destination airport via the Hamilton Bazillion departure yadda, yadda, yadda…” Even with my pen at hand, I wasn’t ready for the gyrations, from them damn “Yankees”, eh? My response was basically, “Tower, you hear how I talk; well that’s how I listen!” I got my clearance on the second read back, but the fact is in down in the lower 48, there are a lot of new controllers that don’t know nothing about “chunking”, that is breaking clearances down into bite size, digestible pieces, i.e. " cleared direct to ELDEE. (Period, I get a chance to Roger) Cross ELDEE at and maintain one one thousand and a bazillion knots (Again, my chance to roger). I think that there are lots of new controllers out there that have never been inside the cockpit of an noisy aircraft, bounced around at night, and their clearance is something like “turn 20 degrees left, cleared direct to BUMFK, cross BUMFK at one two thousand and two one zero knots if unable advise, information ZULU is current, advise you have ZULU and say your mother’s maiden name”. My point is, you need to remind ATC that you can tell me once, or five times until I get it right. Slow down! You want it done right, or do you want it done fast? “BLOCKED” “SAY AGAIN?” “Hey you, was that for me?” Thank god for TCAS and I hope things get better on the ground. Remember, if you ever ask Center or Approach to say their ride conditions, it’s always SMOOTH!

ridejumpfly

Here is the ATC translation:
Turn right heading 330
Descend now to FL250 at normal rate of descent
then descend at pilots discretion to 9000 but make sure your below 11000 at WTEVA (clever by the way).

If he gave you pilots discretion to 9000 the heading may not have been enough to clear the traffic or he needed you at 250 for airspace config. never the less he needs you below 11000 at a certain point most likely for airspace or traffic flow and finally he needs you at 9000 for the next guy.

Situations like this would normally be handled with 2 transmission.

turn right heading 330, descend and maintain FL250.

Then at FL250

Descend at pilots discretion to cross WTEVA at or below 11000, maintain 9000.

the King

Seriously, if these kind of conversations continue to follow you around, it can't be everyone else's fault. Just chill and learn. Controllers have a picture of what they want to happen just like we do. You have to find a way to compromise if possible, and deal if not.

Slice

G, thanks for the backup but I'm not trying to pat myself on the back for what I do or have done in my career. His comment was complaining about being slowed down enroute and ATC in his case was out of line or foolish when it is normal ops in these parts. That's all...

tsween

ive heard descend to 14kft, descend and maintain 8kft.

i read it back aas said but do not see why 14kft was part of the clearance

UnlimitedAkro

If ATC asks you to slow to your minimum airspeed, pull out your chart and figure out what it is if you dont know. Why are you using the word stick shaker anyway? Use your common sense!

There is no need to bring a huge ego, especially when you are new. Welcome to 121 in the northeast pal. They are going to ask you to slow and speed up all the time. Side note, work on the attitude.

FlyJSH

Out of curiosity, do some airlines record flap and gear extensions in addition to hours and cycles. Yeah, it isn't standard, but I would rather dirty up early than get spun a couple times.

BankAngle09

Use the snow flake baby! Damn lazy controllers

ghilis101

my brother tells me at Emirates they record everything. Your entire profile from engine start to shutdown, climb/descent rates, speed limits, when you extend flaps/gear, everything. its recorded and sent to operations real-time probably via some acars-like system. apparently people get called to the carpet every once in a while to explain why they had excessive decent rates or configured early, overspeeds, etc. cant lie at all at that company they can see everything you do.

as for the answer to your question, i doubt they record flap cycles because theres no real flap cycle per se. many airplanes land at 2 flap settings depending on conditions - dc-10 flaps 35 or 50, many boeings flaps 25 or 30, airbus flaps 3 or full, so not sure. plus people move flaps on the ground for various reasons, maintence, deicing, etc, so its not accurate to track.

gear cycles are probably assumed 1 per leg.

Swedish Blender

So if you are asked to do something that's not in the "profile" you will say no I can't? So you are saying you are always on speed at the proper configuration for every approach. If they ask you to go fast, do you say no I can't that's not part of the flight plan? So are you an airplane driver or an aviator?

Slow as practical would equate to clean maneuvering speed in cruise.