runwayrat

Agreed. That way they wash their hands of ever being responsible for anything that goes on here, or being held to their end of any potential bargain. The way the mgt culture at this airline operates is that they wouldn't even care to adhere to said fleet size language. They'd take us right down to zero airplanes and say "grieve it"

Meccathor

Anyone see the new FIL about weight and balance errors resulting in disciplinary action?

Seems pretty ridiculous considering every FO is doing 800 some forms a year while under a time crunch to expect it to be perfect. Especially when we are one of the few airlines that don't have load control or any electronic backup system to do this.

seafeye

Get 10 w&b examples and give them to the training dept. Tell them they have 2 min each and expect a 100% error free result.
I doubt they will even attempt it.
At the same time get them to wear a headset and listen to ATC and Ramp Control. Plus throw in the F/A asking for lag/catering service.

FixTheMess

Yup, pretty sad, but are any of us surprised? Everyone take your time. If the flight goes out late, so be it. Last minute bags? Nope, leave them behind. Oh, the count is off? Better start completely over, don't want any attention drawn to your paperwork. Better yet, let's have the CA and FO each do the entire weight
and balance on two pads individually, and then compare. Twice the amount of forms used, twice the amount of time, and twice the error prevention. It won't be a job action, its how we've been trained; threat assessment and risk management. Time to fill out a safety report every time dispatch has an error on the release. At least we may have a discrimination lawsuit when they are not disciplined for their errors, but we are.

I'm sure a somehow we aren't allowed to go to the press, although, I think the flying public would love to know how many times we are almost dispatched illegally until the CA or FO finds the missed alternate, closed airport, NOTAMed approach, etc. How many crews have had to refuse to ferry an unsafe aircraft this year? its partly our fault. For years we've let them put everything on our shoulders, all the while us not holding them accountable. They need to be held accountable. Anyone have any legal ideas?

frmrdashtrash

This is exactly what you should do. You can't take undue risks right now. Do a very thorough walk around on each leg. Make sure the release is legal. Make sure the aircraft is legal. Make sure the weight and balance is dead nuts accurate. If that means both of you doing it, fine. I would suggest one pilot doing it, then the other guy re-doing it. If they match, you're done.

I say this because every pilot on the property (mostly) is getting ready for their next interview. Don't have a blemish on your FAA record or Piedmont personnel file over something preventable and stupid.

gijoe411

Also, last minute changes to bags and pax, and count discrepancies between the FA and the gate agent.

bigscrillywilli

Make em do it outside in the 95 degree heat too (simulating no Apu or amount of airflow from 2/3 of our fleet)

crabinow16

When did this FIL come out?

boilerflyer

Seems the FA's are taking a vote of their own.

Piedmont flight attendants taking strike vote - Yahoo! Finance

Voice of Reason

The w&b thing is really a no brainer... The station agent transmits w&b numbers to dispatch and we "wait for our numbers" in a text from The Central Nervous Center & Dispatching Command Office in SBY. Just like the Airbus pilots do… Cactus 740, line up and wait RW 27L… Sorry ground, we’re “waiting for our numbers…” We collect our block rate while someone else scratches the nuts and head trying to deal with the 3 extra people will they be able to go? by the way they have 14 carry on bags and can we get a j/s on there too?? And can you figure this out in 1.3 minutes?? And don’t forget to carry that 6…

We've proven time and time again that we can't do math, the only safe way to do it is to have the 0 fuel weight, takeoff weight and trim setting; this could be sent to us, same as every other 121 Jet carrier. Let the guys/gals in the air conditioned Puzzle Palace put a few numbers into their computers and let it spit out the information sans error. How can the FAA fault that plan? Do they think Delta f/o's are scribbling with their shoes off, a bright green crayon and the captain playing with his toes at the same time to check on the f/o? Does USAirways? United? Don't know, but does Air Wisconsin do it manually? Mesa? PSA?

Trim setting?? This is something NEW!!! Hey, they could put 4 tape hash marks on the trim indicator and transmit whether we should have a setting of 3 or 1 or 2 or 4. Then this could be added to the checklist, and wait, don’t forget the MEL. We could then open our MEL book because the 2nd hash mark has worn off, go through the 34 step MEL process which includes 6 phone calls to verify that verification has been completed between mx control, pilot, f/a, the tower, New York approach and the ramp controller in LGA…. After all, safety first!!!

As long as we're going after stuff and willing to strike over it, let's put an end to this w&b
debacle too. Now, about those %*$%))#^ engine intake plugs.....