RAH signs agreement with Midwest Airlines
09-04-2008 | 03:45 PM
#81
Underboob King
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From: Guppy Commander
09-04-2008 | 03:46 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
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From: ERJ FO
Keep in mind that this deal hinges on MidEx being able to use their pilots to fly our aircraft through a dry lease later on down the line. The only way they can do that is with our union's approval. It's explicitly written in our contract. If our union says "No" it could throw the whole deal off.
09-04-2008 | 04:09 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Stage Left
I'm not sure where the mindset came from that current Midwest pilots would fly these airplanes. I don't even see that as plausable. The ONLY way they could is if they agree to concessions that would allow the transfer of "ownership" from RAH to this newly "dreamed up" certificate.
At BEST, this is a temp job for RAH pilots until Midwest shuts its doors and at worst, it is the end of the line for all but a handful of Midwest pilots until it's the end for all of them.
For Midwest to continue as an airline, the current pilots would have to give concessions that they won't make IMHO. This is a plan from Bedford to have someone else pay for his mistake on those 170's as much as possible for as long as possible.
This will not end well except for lawyers.
At BEST, this is a temp job for RAH pilots until Midwest shuts its doors and at worst, it is the end of the line for all but a handful of Midwest pilots until it's the end for all of them.
For Midwest to continue as an airline, the current pilots would have to give concessions that they won't make IMHO. This is a plan from Bedford to have someone else pay for his mistake on those 170's as much as possible for as long as possible.
This will not end well except for lawyers.
09-04-2008 | 05:56 PM
#84
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From: A320 Right
Even though it takes for ever getting a hold of Midwest on the phone to list; THEY ARE THE BEST AIRLINE I HAVE EVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO RIDE ON! I can only hope that RAH or shuttle or chautauqua or whatever company you have over there to avoid scope clauses can hold up the customer service that Midwest has provided over the years.
They are truly a fantastic airline...oh and RAH F/As are ghetto....I know my company has some ghetto F/A's but honestly.....RAH has no hiring criteria for their F/As it never ceases to amaze me.
They are truly a fantastic airline...oh and RAH F/As are ghetto....I know my company has some ghetto F/A's but honestly.....RAH has no hiring criteria for their F/As it never ceases to amaze me.
09-04-2008 | 07:58 PM
#85
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From: Powered parachute, left seat
I too have ridden on Midwest several times and am very impressed with their quality product and excellent customer service! I remember when airtran first tried to take over you guys I was extremely ticked! I thought here is an awesome airline with an amazing product and such a viable part of the Milwaukee community and here comes airtran who wants to destroy an airline just to make a quick buck!
Let me assure you the mood amongst the pilot group here at RAH is of absolute disgust! Yeah its a dog eat dog world out there but none of us want to be used to force you guys into an unfair contract or worse! You have the support of most of the group here! In the near future We will see how it all pans out.
All I ask is communication between all involved pilot groups and their union representation so we know what's going on and what our options are!
And when that time comes my friends you just PM me with a time and date and I'll call in sick! Come up to MKE and stand on a line and hold a sign right there with you! that is if you'll have me!
To all Midwest crews you have my hope and support!
Let me assure you the mood amongst the pilot group here at RAH is of absolute disgust! Yeah its a dog eat dog world out there but none of us want to be used to force you guys into an unfair contract or worse! You have the support of most of the group here! In the near future We will see how it all pans out.
All I ask is communication between all involved pilot groups and their union representation so we know what's going on and what our options are!
And when that time comes my friends you just PM me with a time and date and I'll call in sick! Come up to MKE and stand on a line and hold a sign right there with you! that is if you'll have me!
To all Midwest crews you have my hope and support!
09-04-2008 | 09:11 PM
#86
Banned
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From: EMB 145 CPT
I talk about factual, substantiated information. I don't rant about a pilot group or how any one carrier is supposedly undercutting contracts or bringing the QOL life down for the entire industry. When I speak of a company it's not simply to trash talk it's to actually have an educated conversation about the performance of a place relative to the industry. "Spreadsheet" talk if you will. I don't talk about possible imaginary deals with other carriers and pilot groups.
No I haven't looked at the contract directly. I have read the reports filed by CAL of how the agreement came to be. Also don't forget that Ream himself has stated how low ball it is and that your pilot group is being asked for concessions.
All the claims I've ever made are publicly available for anyone willing to actually put down the kool-aid and take a read. Considering the way things have gone down I'd say I was pretty accurate. Of course I've been told for the past 1.5yrs how I don't know what I'm looking at and XJT is doing great
First off you still don't know what's happening at Midwest. Secondly, yes I know how XJT was whipsawed but the original poster of that message said something along the lines of when an airline is about to go BK here comes a regional accepting a low contract and how majors are being supplied by "cheaper, eager" regionals. Is XJT a cheaper regional now that they have such a cheap contract with CAL?
There's irony all over that guys post. He's doing his best to try and place blame somewhere and not noticing that XJT is a business just like RAH or any other place and has made the same business moves. Whipsawed or not XJT signed a deal so low that there are about to be paycuts. Multiple opportunities to fix that place and Ream always thought he'd do better going the other way.
No I haven't looked at the contract directly. I have read the reports filed by CAL of how the agreement came to be. Also don't forget that Ream himself has stated how low ball it is and that your pilot group is being asked for concessions.
All the claims I've ever made are publicly available for anyone willing to actually put down the kool-aid and take a read. Considering the way things have gone down I'd say I was pretty accurate. Of course I've been told for the past 1.5yrs how I don't know what I'm looking at and XJT is doing great
First off you still don't know what's happening at Midwest. Secondly, yes I know how XJT was whipsawed but the original poster of that message said something along the lines of when an airline is about to go BK here comes a regional accepting a low contract and how majors are being supplied by "cheaper, eager" regionals. Is XJT a cheaper regional now that they have such a cheap contract with CAL?
There's irony all over that guys post. He's doing his best to try and place blame somewhere and not noticing that XJT is a business just like RAH or any other place and has made the same business moves. Whipsawed or not XJT signed a deal so low that there are about to be paycuts. Multiple opportunities to fix that place and Ream always thought he'd do better going the other way.
You sarcastically say that the poster can see the future of your company but cannot his own as if you knew or know the future of XJT or even what the future of RAH is for that matter.
Second, you say to the original poster to take a look at the CAL/XJT contract as if you've looked at it before. And then you say that XJT didn't have to sign that contract and could have just said no. The fact that XJT was whipsawed by CAL using SKW into signing that deal or lose ALL of the CAL flying is totally lost on you.
You even rhetorically said yourself, "Might as well watch mainlines all go out of business and put even more guys on the street" but yet ignore the fact that was what CAL was going to do to XJT if it didn't sign on the dotted line..."put even more guys on the street."
This is not a case of a pilot group rolling over and letting management "low ball" CAL's offer. The gun was on XJT's head and they blinked first. Now they are dealing with the ****ty deal that CAL shoved down their throat. To put in simpler terms for you, this wasn't a concession to keep or get new flying. This is a concession to stay in business because of what CAL did. It isn't as if we are compensated poorly and therefore can low ball bids because of it. You get it yet?
And lastly, if you deny the similarities between that and what is happening between RAH and Midwest then you certainly know less than I had given you credit for.
Last edited by Nevets; 09-04-2008 at 09:21 PM.
09-05-2008 | 02:43 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: E170/175 CA
Even though it takes for ever getting a hold of Midwest on the phone to list; THEY ARE THE BEST AIRLINE I HAVE EVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO RIDE ON! I can only hope that RAH or shuttle or chautauqua or whatever company you have over there to avoid scope clauses can hold up the customer service that Midwest has provided over the years.
They are truly a fantastic airline...oh and RAH F/As are ghetto....I know my company has some ghetto F/A's but honestly.....RAH has no hiring criteria for their F/As it never ceases to amaze me.
They are truly a fantastic airline...oh and RAH F/As are ghetto....I know my company has some ghetto F/A's but honestly.....RAH has no hiring criteria for their F/As it never ceases to amaze me.
09-05-2008 | 01:13 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
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From: 767 CA
Second, you say to the original poster to take a look at the CAL/XJT contract as if you've looked at it before. And then you say that XJT didn't have to sign that contract and could have just said no. The fact that XJT was whipsawed by CAL using SKW into signing that deal or lose ALL of the CAL flying is totally lost on you.
You even rhetorically said yourself, "Might as well watch mainlines all go out of business and put even more guys on the street" but yet ignore the fact that was what CAL was going to do to XJT if it didn't sign on the dotted line..."put even more guys on the street."
This is not a case of a pilot group rolling over and letting management "low ball" CAL's offer. The gun was on XJT's head and they blinked first. Now they are dealing with the ****ty deal that CAL shoved down their throat. To put in simpler terms for you, this wasn't a concession to keep or get new flying. This is a concession to stay in business because of what CAL did. It isn't as if we are compensated poorly and therefore can low ball bids because of it. You get it yet?
And lastly, if you deny the similarities between that and what is happening between RAH and Midwest then you certainly know less than I had given you credit for.
You even rhetorically said yourself, "Might as well watch mainlines all go out of business and put even more guys on the street" but yet ignore the fact that was what CAL was going to do to XJT if it didn't sign on the dotted line..."put even more guys on the street."
This is not a case of a pilot group rolling over and letting management "low ball" CAL's offer. The gun was on XJT's head and they blinked first. Now they are dealing with the ****ty deal that CAL shoved down their throat. To put in simpler terms for you, this wasn't a concession to keep or get new flying. This is a concession to stay in business because of what CAL did. It isn't as if we are compensated poorly and therefore can low ball bids because of it. You get it yet?
And lastly, if you deny the similarities between that and what is happening between RAH and Midwest then you certainly know less than I had given you credit for.
So I see RAH/Midwest as a slimy deal between two managements that screws both pilot groups. Whereas I see XJT in a bed of its own management's making, through no fault of its pilots' mind you, but still very different.
09-05-2008 | 03:59 PM
#89
Che Guevara
Joined: Aug 2005
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I'll deny the similarities because this isn't a whipsaw on us. Secondly RAH isn't going for concession and sure as heck isn't losing money on it. You appear to be doing your best now to solidify my point which was the irony in the post. I bolded the part that points to it. Thank you for the support.
09-06-2008 | 05:42 AM
#90
Retired
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: whale wrangler
Does this mean they wont be flying into MCO ?
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