Up and Out Policies: Upgrade
10-25-2008, 08:34 AM
#32
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by de727ups
The fact remains. If ALPA was at Skywest, it's likely the up or out policy would have been changed and TonyW would still work there. He was rabidly anti-ALPA on this site during the vote. Now he's going to make 7K a year in the right seat of an RJ. What's to feel sorry for?
"The grossly unscientific poll I saw on the SAPA forum was that 25% supported Up-n-Out. I suspect that out of that 25%, virtually all were captains who "already got their's"
Sounds like the other 75% would like to see it changed. What other ALPA airlines have an up or out policy? I think AA does but they aren't ALPA. Personally, I think it's a dumb policy. We have lifer F/O's at UPS. Some do it for the lifestyle and some just can't make the upgrade. Either way, it should be no big deal to stay as an F/O.
"The grossly unscientific poll I saw on the SAPA forum was that 25% supported Up-n-Out. I suspect that out of that 25%, virtually all were captains who "already got their's"
Sounds like the other 75% would like to see it changed. What other ALPA airlines have an up or out policy? I think AA does but they aren't ALPA. Personally, I think it's a dumb policy. We have lifer F/O's at UPS. Some do it for the lifestyle and some just can't make the upgrade. Either way, it should be no big deal to stay as an F/O.
Although I may not agree with him on every point, I respect TW for his participation, and attempting to be part of the solution. It is ironic that a union (ANY union) probably would have put the kabosh on pass-or-out.
10-25-2008, 08:36 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Brazilian Left Seat Driver
Posts: 197
Im totally shocked.. I Didn't know that a company like Skywest could have such a policy. The upgrade training must be a really stressful environment knowing that if you screw up you are fired.. for life!! and basically with no opportunity to work for a good 121 Air carrier again EVER!....
TW I wish you the Best of lucks!
TW I wish you the Best of lucks!
10-25-2008, 08:45 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
Oh yeah, I meant 7K per month. And TW doesn't seem to be complaining about the job too much.
And, no, I don't like cats, either...
"It is ironic that a union (ANY union) probably would have put the kabosh on pass-or-out."
Agreed. That was my point.
And, no, I don't like cats, either...
"It is ironic that a union (ANY union) probably would have put the kabosh on pass-or-out."
Agreed. That was my point.
10-25-2008, 08:51 AM
#35
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by ebuhoner
Im totally shocked.. I Didn't know that a company like Skywest could have such a policy. The upgrade training must be a really stressful environment knowing that if you screw up you are fired.. for life!! and basically with no opportunity to work for a good 121 Air carrier again EVER!....
TW I wish you the Best of lucks!
TW I wish you the Best of lucks!
Also TW attempted to upgrade into the EMB-120 without ever having flown the aircraft. This is a KNOWN risky evolution...it might be worth doing if you have a year or less with the company and want fast PIC time. If you fail and get fired you don't lose much seniority.
In a normal hiring environment, someone in this situation would have no trouble getting a job at another regional...everyone knows that "stuff happens", especially if your training record was good otherwise.
10-25-2008, 08:53 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
Sorry TW. That policy is jacked. I knew a girl that failed her Captain upgrade at Express I (Pinnacle). She did the "walk of shame" across the ramp as an F/O for about 6 months and then got hired at FedEx!!!! She wasn't so down after that. I hope you meet a similar fate. As for up or out....at UAL we have over age 60 guys in the right seat!!! Some guys first Captain seat is the 777. Why not? That is how it should be IMO. To each his own.
Last edited by jsled; 10-25-2008 at 08:58 AM.
10-25-2008, 08:54 AM
#37
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by de727ups
The fact remains. If ALPA was at Skywest, it's likely the up or out policy would have been changed and TonyW would still work there. He was rabidly anti-ALPA on this site during the vote. Now he's going to make 7K a year in the right seat of an RJ. What's to feel sorry for?
If you're going to continue to bash people on a regular basis then you need to hang up your senior role here. You're suppose to be impartial and at least appreciative of the situations others are in.
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Please take the public bashing of an individual to PM's. Thank you.
"Please use the "good neighbor" policy when posting to this site. If you wouldn't say it to your neighbor face to face, than don't say it here"
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10-25-2008, 09:42 AM
#38
*********
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by HercDriver130
My personal grief is with those FO's who either NEVER attempt an upgrade or if they do and have problems ...NEVER attempt an upgrade again. The example I used above is a person who has been with the company nearly 9 years and has failed upgrade once several years ago, and is afraid of upgrading at this point.
10-25-2008, 09:52 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Stagnant..
Posts: 438
Why does everyone bash the CRJ/ERJ pilots on the ' Jet vs Prop ' technicalities, then turn right around and be understanding of a prop driver failing a transistion to jet cause it's ' hard ' ? Double standard ?
10-25-2008, 10:51 AM
#40
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by Billy32
That is kinda screwed up. You go into an oral expecting aircraft questions. If they started with regs I would get thrown for a loop too. Kinda throws you off balance.
