Up and Out Policies: Upgrade
10-25-2008 | 12:50 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
From: Couch-Horizontal
All I can say about question #4 is wow. Why would any examiner ever want to ask that question? Who really cares what the letters stand for in MALSR and ALSF-2? As long as you know that when you break out of the clouds, you are looking for app lights. TW you should have asked him to draw you a full color picture of these app light systems. Sounds like a UND Avit 222 stage check question.
10-25-2008 | 01:11 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: CA
10-25-2008 | 01:51 PM
#54
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,148
Likes: 802
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
10-25-2008 | 01:59 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
From: retired
One interesting question that has not been mentioned with respect to up or out is medical certification. Some pilots are able to hold a second class FAA medical, but not a first class. Would those airlines with a forced upgrade such as AA terminate this pilot? If so, would the pilot have any recourse under the Americans with Disabilities Act?
Joe
Joe
10-25-2008 | 02:05 PM
#56
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,148
Likes: 802
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
They CAN however require a first class to get hired, on the premise that they are highering future capatins.
The airlines used to get away with some pretty draconian medical criteria, above and beyond the FAA, but they have eased off quite a bit in the last ten years.
10-25-2008 | 02:10 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,048
Likes: 0
From: Self employed
I really didn't post the questions asked by the examiner as relevant, or not; but merely to give an impression of how quickly it went down hill. From question one. I missed it. Question 2, missed, 3 missed.... obviously, knowing that this could be step one in your termination, and that you'll never fly again (or at least not for one h*ck of a long time) in the U.S. of A.; it definitely was choke time.
Surely, many of those questions in the real world are look 'em up type questions. But this oral was not conducted that way, nor would anybody at SkW expect to look something up in the oral, to my knowledge. I accurately spewed out the duty rest chart, for instance, but misapplied the data. He obviously knew to ask that question as one that folks would probably screw up. I bit.
I asked him the next day (while he was issuing my second pink slip) how many folks got the "50ft minimum approach light" question right. He said almost nobody.
Certainly more questions were asked than I listed. On the approach lights, he also asked how long the lights of an ALSF-2 extended from the runway. I said 3000ft. It's 2600.
When I got that wrong, he made it a point to tell me how important that piece of information was, so that you could judge the RVR. Not sure I buy that either, since I only (legally) care what the reported RVR is, and whether or not I have the "adequate visual references" when I land.
He showed me an enroute chart, folded to show Reno in the center. He asked what was required to fly in there. The only thing I could think of was that it has Class C, so I said two way radio comm and xponder with mode C.
Wrong, of course; he expect me to say extra fuel contingency since there isn't a nearby airport to divert to.
He asked how far away I could plan a take-off alternate. I said 175 miles, which... you guess it, was wrong. I was getting questions wrong that I knew the answers to... the actual number that SkW trains in the EMB is 165 miles.
He asked if the 165 was go/no go; in other words, could I plan an airport at 168 miles. I said no, if 165 was the number we were supposed to go by. Of course, I got that wrong, too, and he gave an example of a crew who didn't depart when their takeoff alternate was 168 miles. Another example where years of familiarity with the "lore of the vessel" would have helped immensely, and I doubt there would have been many of those type of questions I would have stumbled over in the CRJ.
Last edited by TonyWilliams; 10-25-2008 at 03:51 PM.
10-25-2008 | 02:13 PM
#58
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,929
Likes: 0
From: A-320
I really didn't post the questions asked by the examiner as relevant, or not; but merely to give an impression of how quickly it went down hill. From question one. I missed it. Question 2, missed, 3 missed.... obviously, knowing that this could be step one in your termination, and that you'll never fly again (or at least not for one h*ck of a long time) in the U.S. of A.; it definitely was choke time.
Surely, many of those questions in the real world are look 'em up type questions. But this oral was not conducted that way, nor would anybody at SkW to expect that kind of oral, to my knowledge. I accurately spewed out the duty rest chart, for instance, but misapplied the data. He obviously knew to ask that question as one that folks would probably screw up. I bit.
I asked him the next day (while he was issuing my second pink slip) how many folks got the "50ft minimum approach light" question right. He said almost nobody.
Certainly more questions were asked than I listed. On the approach lights, he also asked how long the lights of an ALSF-2 extended from the runway. I said 3000ft. It's 2600.
When I got that wrong, he made it a point to tell me how important that piece of information was, so that you could judge the RVR. Not sure I buy that either, since I only (legally) care what the reported RVR is, and whether or not I have the "adequate visual references" when I land.
He showed me an enroute chart, folded to show Reno in the center. He asked what was required to fly in there. The only thing I could think of was that it has Class C, so I said two way radio comm and xponder with mode C.
Wrong, of course; he expect me to say extra fuel contingency since there isn't a nearby airport to divert to.
Surely, many of those questions in the real world are look 'em up type questions. But this oral was not conducted that way, nor would anybody at SkW to expect that kind of oral, to my knowledge. I accurately spewed out the duty rest chart, for instance, but misapplied the data. He obviously knew to ask that question as one that folks would probably screw up. I bit.
I asked him the next day (while he was issuing my second pink slip) how many folks got the "50ft minimum approach light" question right. He said almost nobody.
Certainly more questions were asked than I listed. On the approach lights, he also asked how long the lights of an ALSF-2 extended from the runway. I said 3000ft. It's 2600.
When I got that wrong, he made it a point to tell me how important that piece of information was, so that you could judge the RVR. Not sure I buy that either, since I only (legally) care what the reported RVR is, and whether or not I have the "adequate visual references" when I land.
He showed me an enroute chart, folded to show Reno in the center. He asked what was required to fly in there. The only thing I could think of was that it has Class C, so I said two way radio comm and xponder with mode C.
Wrong, of course; he expect me to say extra fuel contingency since there isn't a nearby airport to divert to.
Also I feel kinda bad for people that want nothing more in life to fly an airplane that they would go to YEMEN to do it. Life is too short and way to precious to live in the MIDDLE EAST..................that included Dubai for all the EMIRATES cheerleaders in here
Tony, you seem like a good guy it is a shame what happened but I would not want to work for a company like that anyway, low class in my opinion, at least how it seems to have gone down
10-25-2008 | 02:22 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Sigh.
Just a friendly reminder to everyone to keep the conversation on track. This is an interesting topic and one that needs to be discussed, BUT please do so without personal attacks or inflammatory statements. Trust me, it can be done. I decline to delete any offensive posts nor give out infractions for now; however, I can easily change my mind after I've had some lunch. In the meantime, keep your nose clean or I'm going to wipe it for you with sandpaper.
Just a friendly reminder to everyone to keep the conversation on track. This is an interesting topic and one that needs to be discussed, BUT please do so without personal attacks or inflammatory statements. Trust me, it can be done. I decline to delete any offensive posts nor give out infractions for now; however, I can easily change my mind after I've had some lunch. In the meantime, keep your nose clean or I'm going to wipe it for you with sandpaper.
