I'll relate another story that was told to me by another pilot. When he went through newhire EMB training he had a terrible time with his instructor. The guy would on give him about an hour of sim time each day, while his partner used rest of the 4 hour block. He spoke to the instructor about it, complaining he didn't feel comfortable with the limited amount of hands on flying he was getting. The instructors response was that he was just a 50+ year old hobby pilot living off his retirement and flying here for fun. That the sim time should go to the 20 something year old professional pilot!

Maybe this was the same guy. Maybe he had a grudge. Perhaps he had been violated by ATC in the past and took it out on you.

Without a doubt some of the guys in the training department have a GOD complex.

 

Just sent you a PM

 

Tony, please talk to an attorney...

 

I'm surprised that you were sent on to the sim after the unsat oral. At Mesa, you must satisfactorily pass the oral before you are allowed to attempt the checkride.

The number of attempts at the oral are not unlimited. I think a 3 strike policy is employed. However, if you need 3 tries to pass the oral, then you have to "win out" through the remainder of training. That is, no re-trains, and the checkride must be clean the 1st time through.

I don't know why the FAA would HAVE to be at a re-training event, or even a re-checkride. My sim partner required several re-trains and no FAA rep was ever present. I don't know about a re-checkride, but I would suspect the examiner would have to be different.

 

I would not have gone to the sim checkride after failing the oral.

Say you passed the checkride. Then what do you go? Go back and re-do the oral? What if you failed that second oral after passing the sim? What the heck SkyWest!

 

I wasn't sure how to repond to this thread, but I am a former SKYW guy that did the CRJ FO-EMB CA transition. I too had never flown the EMB. The training program is fast paced, and they do expect a lot during the first type ride, especially if it is also your ATP ride. I received almost the same questions on my EMB and CRJ orals.

As what TW said, up or out, is different than qualify in turn. Failing a checkride is also not the end of your career. I interviewed at NWA with a couple of people who had failed checkrides, and they were hired. They don't get the PRIA paperwork until after you interview and have a chance to explain what happened.

As for whether an airline can require an F/O to hold a first class medical, most legacy carriers do. I must hold a first class medical, but I am only required to take it once a year, no matter what age.

 

So you need two-way comms, a transponder, and contingency fuel.

Anything else?!?

You also need a flashlight. And a current medical certificate. And a First Officer. And a beacon and nav lights. And a flight attendant if there are passengers. And a copy of the AFM. And a VOR check within 30 days. And seatbelts. And oil. And 8 hours rest within the preceeding 24 hours. And a FCC certificate. And current weather and NOTAMs. And three landings within the preceeding 90 days. And a million other things.

I'm pretty sure nobody in the history of aviation has answered the what was required to fly in there question completely and correctly.

 

That's a loaded question, no winning there

 

I just had a chat with my favorite attorney this evening. The one thing that jumped out to this attorney was how the company regularly, and persistently reminded you that this program was "up-r-out", but would usually qualify that by saying that almost nobody fails training at SkW.

Naturally, this policy wouldn't work if folks thought they were seriously going to get fired. They wouldn't sign up. The EMB training manager actually gave us numbers. I wrote them down at the time. He said 5 had failed in 4 years. I remember thinking what a bunch of dumb*sses those 5 must have been. I had two classmates question me about it; one was concerned enough that I went and talked to one of the training managers and discussed his concerns (as a SAPA rep, anonymous pilot). I pretty much offered the party line; "Hey, they've got a lot of money invested in us. They're not going to let you fail. Just do your best."

One of the SAPA reps was in that first Metro upgrade class when it was announced (after the class started) that the new policy was "up-r-out". So, when the group became unresponsive in class, the instructor reassured them with, "who do you know that has ever failed a SkW training event?"

He passed, but the reality is folks do not pass. Not very many. But way more than 5 in 4 years. It's just quietly shuffled under the carpet when it happens. We heard that a female new hire had just failed the ground school written exam twice. She was fired, but offered to reapply in 6 months.

But the two female upgrades who failed before our class (unsubstantiated rumor), of course, were fired just like me.

And naturally, they don't include the folks who quit, like the one guy who did in my class, just after the ground written. He basically quit in lieu of waiting to fail and then getting fired.

The other substantial thing is that virtually ANY OTHER TRAINING EVENT at SkW has a backup plan if things go bad, except for upgrade.

 

Sounds like Skywest needs a union....