The type of Airline Pilots we have become
03-03-2009, 08:48 AM
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 171
well here's a shock... yet another thread started with albeit loose relevance to our profession, hijacked and turned into this. one need not look too far to figure out why our companies abuse us and our union steals from our pockets. "my plane is bigger, 500hr wonder, instructing is the way"... you serious, are we still on these topics? you know ive seen very few backpack toting, ipod wearing, upside down epaulette rocking first officers... but i have seen plenty of BS chief "company men" pilots and tons of middle management actively seeking new ways to drive our companies further into the ground and making our lives even more miserable in the process.
here's some more steaks for you guys to fight over...
MESA
GOJet
MAPD, PanAm, RAA
go boys... go gettem....!!!!
here's some more steaks for you guys to fight over...
MESA
GOJet
MAPD, PanAm, RAA
go boys... go gettem....!!!!
03-03-2009, 10:09 AM
#153
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Gear Thrower
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by winglet
Donk 74,
Thanks for the reply. I agree with you 100% and I talk about the lost art of mentoring often. I can tell that you have a background that would indicate that you are one of the exeptions to the rule and as you progress in your airline career you'll begin to see what I see.
I was and always will be a flight instructor at heart. Believe it or not I do remember when I was an FO and the Captains I admired most were the highly experienced and patient mentors who went above and beyond breaking me in. I vowed at that time that I would always be a professional and a mentor to the new guys.
I realize that there are some excellent pilots still coming up and I'm generalizing but the "new generation" of pilot I'm lamenting about and the trend I see is the growing number of totally unprepared newhires that I've been flying with over the last few years. I'm not talking about being unproficient at 121 operations and unfamiliarity with company's procedures. I'm talking about a lack of the most basic aviation fundamentals.
These people are supposedly commercial multi-engine instrument pilots and I'm often shocked at the total lack of understanding of the rules, regulations and weak flying skills. I often wonder if I'm not paired up with imposters. What concerns me even more is that these people don't seem to really care about their lack of knowledge. I guess they only have their peers to compare themselves to.
I do worry about my chosen profession and I'm only voicing my concern over the lack of professionalism and aviation knowledge displayed to me daily. The huge demand for regional pilots over the last few years and the lack of oversight by the FAA has allowed a flood of unqualified people into the airlines. It was a challenge for me and my peers to get into the airlines. It now seems as though there are no filters
I hear alot about airline pilots not getting any respect anymore and that we are losing pay and benefits because we are not valued. I suggest that we were once respected and valued because we presented ourselves better.
I don't expect many to understand what I'm talking about because they haven't witnessed this trend over a period of time. My intent is not to insult but to do exactly what you suggest; get "gruff." I'm no Chuck Yeager believe me but I shouldn't have to explain the pitch/power relationship or L/D Max or how to read METARs and TAFs etc. to a Part 121 pilot.
I often get recently upgraded Captains that I have previously flown with call and tell me that they appreciate what I did for them and that they now know exactly what I'm talking about concerning the slackers out there. When you are a good FO you don't see the laziness of your peers. If you are a good pilot and upgrade you'll say to yourself, "Oh, now I see exactly what that old tool "Grandpa" Winglet was talking about".
Here's me being gruff: Crack the books boys and girls. Make an attempt to gain the missing knowledge and skills the ticket factory you came from cheated you out of. You may just need them some day.
How's that Donk 74?
Good FO's make good Captains
Winglet
Thanks for the reply. I agree with you 100% and I talk about the lost art of mentoring often. I can tell that you have a background that would indicate that you are one of the exeptions to the rule and as you progress in your airline career you'll begin to see what I see.
I was and always will be a flight instructor at heart. Believe it or not I do remember when I was an FO and the Captains I admired most were the highly experienced and patient mentors who went above and beyond breaking me in. I vowed at that time that I would always be a professional and a mentor to the new guys.
I realize that there are some excellent pilots still coming up and I'm generalizing but the "new generation" of pilot I'm lamenting about and the trend I see is the growing number of totally unprepared newhires that I've been flying with over the last few years. I'm not talking about being unproficient at 121 operations and unfamiliarity with company's procedures. I'm talking about a lack of the most basic aviation fundamentals.
These people are supposedly commercial multi-engine instrument pilots and I'm often shocked at the total lack of understanding of the rules, regulations and weak flying skills. I often wonder if I'm not paired up with imposters. What concerns me even more is that these people don't seem to really care about their lack of knowledge. I guess they only have their peers to compare themselves to.
I do worry about my chosen profession and I'm only voicing my concern over the lack of professionalism and aviation knowledge displayed to me daily. The huge demand for regional pilots over the last few years and the lack of oversight by the FAA has allowed a flood of unqualified people into the airlines. It was a challenge for me and my peers to get into the airlines. It now seems as though there are no filters
I hear alot about airline pilots not getting any respect anymore and that we are losing pay and benefits because we are not valued. I suggest that we were once respected and valued because we presented ourselves better.
I don't expect many to understand what I'm talking about because they haven't witnessed this trend over a period of time. My intent is not to insult but to do exactly what you suggest; get "gruff." I'm no Chuck Yeager believe me but I shouldn't have to explain the pitch/power relationship or L/D Max or how to read METARs and TAFs etc. to a Part 121 pilot.
I often get recently upgraded Captains that I have previously flown with call and tell me that they appreciate what I did for them and that they now know exactly what I'm talking about concerning the slackers out there. When you are a good FO you don't see the laziness of your peers. If you are a good pilot and upgrade you'll say to yourself, "Oh, now I see exactly what that old tool "Grandpa" Winglet was talking about".
Here's me being gruff: Crack the books boys and girls. Make an attempt to gain the missing knowledge and skills the ticket factory you came from cheated you out of. You may just need them some day.
How's that Donk 74?
Good FO's make good Captains
Winglet
Donk
03-03-2009, 09:26 PM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: none ya...
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by DeadHead
For someone who doesn't like having their career progression criticized....
You sure know how to dish it out.
I'll ask you a straight question, be honest, I'm not trying to attack you.
By participating in GIA program, did they (GIA) sell you experience in the right seat of a B1900 under 121 operations?
And if so, do you agree, today, that programs like these are a detriment to this industry?
You sure know how to dish it out.
I'll ask you a straight question, be honest, I'm not trying to attack you.
By participating in GIA program, did they (GIA) sell you experience in the right seat of a B1900 under 121 operations?
And if so, do you agree, today, that programs like these are a detriment to this industry?
This is the last time I will state this, I paid for my training, when I earned the rating qualifying me for the right seat I spent 250 hrs with them, listening to captains that had something to pass on, tips and tricks so to speak, and again" YES, I was paid". I was well prepared for the technical aspect of flying the 1900 before I stepped foot in it. Just like anyone else I had normal IOE experiance learning a new airframe firsthand on the line about 25 hrs with my IOE capt. I was no different. Took me about 150 hrs to become comfortable with it, and I know I can still learn more like all of us should be doing our whole career, I earned my job by working hard, getting some letters of recomendation from line captains I flew with. When I finished my 250 I recieved permanent hire up to my number coming up on furlough. I stand by my decision to go this route, it does work very well for those that take it seriously for what it is. It has never been about buying a job, that has been a BS rumor floating around for years as a way to slam a school that takes a different approach to entering the 121 word. It is not the only way, and like I've said go the way that works best for you. Most people who post garbage, started out by going straight into the 121 world during the boom with 5-700hours, and passed 121 training, and hit OE. How do they believe they are somehow safer or more deserving to be here. I went through a training course and type, to the same standards as them, only differance is I paid for it, why should that concern them, its my money that I worked for. Im just sick and tired of guys that were 500 hr wonders slamming a group of pilots that they really know absolutly nothing about, because they felt entitled to jump right into a barbie jet. Ill stand up to them every time. It is what it is. I do not believe we are a detriment to the industry and Ill tell you why. We have a decent, contract for 1900 drivers, and it includes the amount of flying that belongs to the permanent hire guys, so no one is stealing flying. Based on the idiots talking garbage about how 3M is a ( Evil airline with evil pilots out to hurt people), Im guessing none of you want to work for the evil airline anyway. People need to grow up, fix their own house first, stop having this I'M entitled attitude, and realize that the industrys hiring practices are changing, lots of pilots are operating 121 with lo times, even guys that didnt come here. Im always amazed that 3M pilots, keep their poise and bearing even in the face of the few idiots out to bash us. Im not angry with anyone, I am simply never going to back down, GIA is here, its strong and wont be going anywhere. Again, until they are ready for the next level, most guys are here for awhile, because we have one of the better 1900 drvr contracts on the market. And really, the flying to the Bahamas and the Keys is pretty nice flying.
Last edited by TPROP4ever; 03-03-2009 at 09:55 PM.
03-03-2009, 09:45 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: none ya...
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by SAABaroowski
Here is the way I see it.
The type of Airline Pilots that I have a lot of confidence in are the types of guys that used to hang around airports at the age of 10 worked at the airports at the age of 15. I used to work for an Aeriel Banner company out of (BLM) as a kid, it was great my Dad dropped me off bright and early Saturday's and Sunday's and I worked my A$$ off setting up the banners and rolling them up etc. I did this for a few reasons, most importantly I was fascinated by airplanes and loved the airport. I worked for $10/hr towards flight training and worked my tail off to pay for training and soloed right after my 16th birthday. I think I am somewhat of an airplane geek, I always look up when I hear and airplane and envy the 152 flying overhead in the summers. Some of the best sticks I have flown with have multitude of experiences from gliders, to Stearman's,Cubs etc..... These guys grew up admiring aviation and airplanes and it only seemed natural to become an airline pilot. Hell..... you would think being I soloed at the age of 16 I would be a CA by 23 yet here I am 28 and a regional F/O. I can't say I wouldn't like being a CA now, but I wouldn't have traded the $250 hamburgers with good friends, or trips down to Bader field in Atlantic City, or teaching someone how to fly a 172. It was all life experience and really taught me how to fly an airplane......... some airplanes are heavier and have different tendencies but an airplane is an airplane is an airplane. (Some of these guys can't land an airplane in a 10kt crosswind!!!)
Now, you take the guys who are in their second career and never really thought about aviation until they see some ad online, or some silly commercial telling them how they can be an airline pilot is just 6 months time. Now before I get flamed I am not saying guys from ATP, or one of those factories are not good pilots, but a lot of them just rushed through it and missed out on experiences that you could only get from trying to teach someone how to land a 172, or scaring yourself silly, or do hours upon hours of spin training. The ATP mentality, as well as some other factories is DO THE FAA MINIMUM to get done as cheap and quickly as possible.............well how does that create a competent pilot? I spent $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to go out and fly around aimlessly going to grass strips (Trinca), tiny runways (Buttervalley), International airports to be overwhelmed by approach lights (Stewart, NY). My roommate at Colgan instructed at Spartan down in Tulsa and he would tell me what type of students they would turn out, he said it was unreal that they were letting these types of guys get through................THESE types of guys/gals are going to be flying people around for a 121 airline, and have never seen ACTUAL IMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been babbling for a while and I don't mean to discredit those that went from Insurance Broker to Airline Pilot in 6 months but the type of Pilot I like to fly with are the ones that have had aviation as a part of their life since they can remember, those that have some close calls in a 172 etc........
I dunno I just think as of late (past 10 years) these places pump out FAA Legal Airline Pilots, but poor aviators.......
Sorry for the rant guys,
SAAB
The type of Airline Pilots that I have a lot of confidence in are the types of guys that used to hang around airports at the age of 10 worked at the airports at the age of 15. I used to work for an Aeriel Banner company out of (BLM) as a kid, it was great my Dad dropped me off bright and early Saturday's and Sunday's and I worked my A$$ off setting up the banners and rolling them up etc. I did this for a few reasons, most importantly I was fascinated by airplanes and loved the airport. I worked for $10/hr towards flight training and worked my tail off to pay for training and soloed right after my 16th birthday. I think I am somewhat of an airplane geek, I always look up when I hear and airplane and envy the 152 flying overhead in the summers. Some of the best sticks I have flown with have multitude of experiences from gliders, to Stearman's,Cubs etc..... These guys grew up admiring aviation and airplanes and it only seemed natural to become an airline pilot. Hell..... you would think being I soloed at the age of 16 I would be a CA by 23 yet here I am 28 and a regional F/O. I can't say I wouldn't like being a CA now, but I wouldn't have traded the $250 hamburgers with good friends, or trips down to Bader field in Atlantic City, or teaching someone how to fly a 172. It was all life experience and really taught me how to fly an airplane......... some airplanes are heavier and have different tendencies but an airplane is an airplane is an airplane. (Some of these guys can't land an airplane in a 10kt crosswind!!!)
Now, you take the guys who are in their second career and never really thought about aviation until they see some ad online, or some silly commercial telling them how they can be an airline pilot is just 6 months time. Now before I get flamed I am not saying guys from ATP, or one of those factories are not good pilots, but a lot of them just rushed through it and missed out on experiences that you could only get from trying to teach someone how to land a 172, or scaring yourself silly, or do hours upon hours of spin training. The ATP mentality, as well as some other factories is DO THE FAA MINIMUM to get done as cheap and quickly as possible.............well how does that create a competent pilot? I spent $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to go out and fly around aimlessly going to grass strips (Trinca), tiny runways (Buttervalley), International airports to be overwhelmed by approach lights (Stewart, NY). My roommate at Colgan instructed at Spartan down in Tulsa and he would tell me what type of students they would turn out, he said it was unreal that they were letting these types of guys get through................THESE types of guys/gals are going to be flying people around for a 121 airline, and have never seen ACTUAL IMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been babbling for a while and I don't mean to discredit those that went from Insurance Broker to Airline Pilot in 6 months but the type of Pilot I like to fly with are the ones that have had aviation as a part of their life since they can remember, those that have some close calls in a 172 etc........
I dunno I just think as of late (past 10 years) these places pump out FAA Legal Airline Pilots, but poor aviators.......
Sorry for the rant guys,
SAAB
03-03-2009, 11:06 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: CRJ 200 Furloughed FO
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by SAABaroowski
Here is the way I see it.
The type of Airline Pilots that I have a lot of confidence in are the types of guys that used to hang around airports at the age of 10 worked at the airports at the age of 15. I used to work for an Aeriel Banner company out of (BLM) as a kid, it was great my Dad dropped me off bright and early Saturday's and Sunday's and I worked my A$$ off setting up the banners and rolling them up etc. I did this for a few reasons, most importantly I was fascinated by airplanes and loved the airport. I worked for $10/hr towards flight training and worked my tail off to pay for training and soloed right after my 16th birthday. I think I am somewhat of an airplane geek, I always look up when I hear and airplane and envy the 152 flying overhead in the summers. Some of the best sticks I have flown with have multitude of experiences from gliders, to Stearman's,Cubs etc..... These guys grew up admiring aviation and airplanes and it only seemed natural to become an airline pilot. Hell..... you would think being I soloed at the age of 16 I would be a CA by 23 yet here I am 28 and a regional F/O. I can't say I wouldn't like being a CA now, but I wouldn't have traded the $250 hamburgers with good friends, or trips down to Bader field in Atlantic City, or teaching someone how to fly a 172. It was all life experience and really taught me how to fly an airplane......... some airplanes are heavier and have different tendencies but an airplane is an airplane is an airplane. (Some of these guys can't land an airplane in a 10kt crosswind!!!)
Now, you take the guys who are in their second career and never really thought about aviation until they see some ad online, or some silly commercial telling them how they can be an airline pilot is just 6 months time. Now before I get flamed I am not saying guys from ATP, or one of those factories are not good pilots, but a lot of them just rushed through it and missed out on experiences that you could only get from trying to teach someone how to land a 172, or scaring yourself silly, or do hours upon hours of spin training. The ATP mentality, as well as some other factories is DO THE FAA MINIMUM to get done as cheap and quickly as possible.............well how does that create a competent pilot? I spent $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to go out and fly around aimlessly going to grass strips (Trinca), tiny runways (Buttervalley), International airports to be overwhelmed by approach lights (Stewart, NY). My roommate at Colgan instructed at Spartan down in Tulsa and he would tell me what type of students they would turn out, he said it was unreal that they were letting these types of guys get through................THESE types of guys/gals are going to be flying people around for a 121 airline, and have never seen ACTUAL IMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been babbling for a while and I don't mean to discredit those that went from Insurance Broker to Airline Pilot in 6 months but the type of Pilot I like to fly with are the ones that have had aviation as a part of their life since they can remember, those that have some close calls in a 172 etc........
I dunno I just think as of late (past 10 years) these places pump out FAA Legal Airline Pilots, but poor aviators.......
Sorry for the rant guys,
SAAB
The type of Airline Pilots that I have a lot of confidence in are the types of guys that used to hang around airports at the age of 10 worked at the airports at the age of 15. I used to work for an Aeriel Banner company out of (BLM) as a kid, it was great my Dad dropped me off bright and early Saturday's and Sunday's and I worked my A$$ off setting up the banners and rolling them up etc. I did this for a few reasons, most importantly I was fascinated by airplanes and loved the airport. I worked for $10/hr towards flight training and worked my tail off to pay for training and soloed right after my 16th birthday. I think I am somewhat of an airplane geek, I always look up when I hear and airplane and envy the 152 flying overhead in the summers. Some of the best sticks I have flown with have multitude of experiences from gliders, to Stearman's,Cubs etc..... These guys grew up admiring aviation and airplanes and it only seemed natural to become an airline pilot. Hell..... you would think being I soloed at the age of 16 I would be a CA by 23 yet here I am 28 and a regional F/O. I can't say I wouldn't like being a CA now, but I wouldn't have traded the $250 hamburgers with good friends, or trips down to Bader field in Atlantic City, or teaching someone how to fly a 172. It was all life experience and really taught me how to fly an airplane......... some airplanes are heavier and have different tendencies but an airplane is an airplane is an airplane. (Some of these guys can't land an airplane in a 10kt crosswind!!!)
Now, you take the guys who are in their second career and never really thought about aviation until they see some ad online, or some silly commercial telling them how they can be an airline pilot is just 6 months time. Now before I get flamed I am not saying guys from ATP, or one of those factories are not good pilots, but a lot of them just rushed through it and missed out on experiences that you could only get from trying to teach someone how to land a 172, or scaring yourself silly, or do hours upon hours of spin training. The ATP mentality, as well as some other factories is DO THE FAA MINIMUM to get done as cheap and quickly as possible.............well how does that create a competent pilot? I spent $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to go out and fly around aimlessly going to grass strips (Trinca), tiny runways (Buttervalley), International airports to be overwhelmed by approach lights (Stewart, NY). My roommate at Colgan instructed at Spartan down in Tulsa and he would tell me what type of students they would turn out, he said it was unreal that they were letting these types of guys get through................THESE types of guys/gals are going to be flying people around for a 121 airline, and have never seen ACTUAL IMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been babbling for a while and I don't mean to discredit those that went from Insurance Broker to Airline Pilot in 6 months but the type of Pilot I like to fly with are the ones that have had aviation as a part of their life since they can remember, those that have some close calls in a 172 etc........
I dunno I just think as of late (past 10 years) these places pump out FAA Legal Airline Pilots, but poor aviators.......
Sorry for the rant guys,
SAAB
I agree, not to say that anyone from those schools is less of a pilot at all, but there is some great experience in doing it the FBO way. It's not a cookie cutteer mentality, and when you instruct for awhile, you learn more than how to do an even better lazy 8 or stall. You acquire better communication skills (something I've heard airlines like), among other things. You run into things in those hours that you are less likely to see in a more sterilized environment.
Incidentally, SAAB, I've been to each of the places you mentioned both as an instructor and as a student, and they make for great memories. Especially trying to get 8QZ to climb out of Butter Valley on a hot day!
03-04-2009, 12:50 AM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by TPROP4ever
That was not my intention. I'm simply burned out on people twisting my words around. I've stated till I am blue in the face that I simply believe that PFT is a viable alternative. Ive made it clear numorous times that I want to instruct also, after breaking into 121 ops, because I have more to give back now and understanding first hand what it like on this side of the house. I would not have made a good instructor if I had gone that route back then, I would have been there for all the wrong reasons I just think its a shame to poison the CFI industry by forcing people who do not want to be there, but are because they are believing they have no alternative, when there are other alternatives.
Don't take this the wrong way, but going straight to a 121 airline job will not make you a better flight instructor.
Point is, if you are pursuing a long term airline career at the 121 level then, like it or not, you WILL BE instructing one day anyway you slice it.
I won't criticize you or the career path you've choosen, but I don't believe in PFJ or PFT programs. I think these programs look to take advantage of people by offering them a shortcut into the industry. I won't fault anyone for taking this route, but I think their should be a movement to stop it.
03-04-2009, 04:56 AM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
Originally Posted by TPROP4ever
That was not my intention. I'm simply burned out on people twisting my words around. I've stated till I am blue in the face that I simply believe that PFT is a viable alternative. Ive made it clear numorous times that I want to instruct also, after breaking into 121 ops, because I have more to give back now and understanding first hand what it like on this side of the house. I would not have made a good instructor if I had gone that route back then, I would have been there for all the wrong reasons I just think its a shame to poison the CFI industry by forcing people who do not want to be there, but are because they are believing they have no alternative, when there are other alternatives.
This is the last time I will state this, I paid for my training, when I earned the rating qualifying me for the right seat I spent 250 hrs with them, listening to captains that had something to pass on, tips and tricks so to speak, and again" YES, I was paid". I was well prepared for the technical aspect of flying the 1900 before I stepped foot in it. Just like anyone else I had normal IOE experiance learning a new airframe firsthand on the line about 25 hrs with my IOE capt. I was no different. Took me about 150 hrs to become comfortable with it, and I know I can still learn more like all of us should be doing our whole career, I earned my job by working hard, getting some letters of recomendation from line captains I flew with. When I finished my 250 I recieved permanent hire up to my number coming up on furlough. I stand by my decision to go this route, it does work very well for those that take it seriously for what it is. It has never been about buying a job, that has been a BS rumor floating around for years as a way to slam a school that takes a different approach to entering the 121 word. It is not the only way, and like I've said go the way that works best for you. Most people who post garbage, started out by going straight into the 121 world during the boom with 5-700hours, and passed 121 training, and hit OE. How do they believe they are somehow safer or more deserving to be here. I went through a training course and type, to the same standards as them, only differance is I paid for it, why should that concern them, its my money that I worked for. Im just sick and tired of guys that were 500 hr wonders slamming a group of pilots that they really know absolutly nothing about, because they felt entitled to jump right into a barbie jet. Ill stand up to them every time. It is what it is. I do not believe we are a detriment to the industry and Ill tell you why. We have a decent, contract for 1900 drivers, and it includes the amount of flying that belongs to the permanent hire guys, so no one is stealing flying. Based on the idiots talking garbage about how 3M is a ( Evil airline with evil pilots out to hurt people), Im guessing none of you want to work for the evil airline anyway. People need to grow up, fix their own house first, stop having this I'M entitled attitude, and realize that the industrys hiring practices are changing, lots of pilots are operating 121 with lo times, even guys that didnt come here. Im always amazed that 3M pilots, keep their poise and bearing even in the face of the few idiots out to bash us. Im not angry with anyone, I am simply never going to back down, GIA is here, its strong and wont be going anywhere. Again, until they are ready for the next level, most guys are here for awhile, because we have one of the better 1900 drvr contracts on the market. And really, the flying to the Bahamas and the Keys is pretty nice flying.
This is the last time I will state this, I paid for my training, when I earned the rating qualifying me for the right seat I spent 250 hrs with them, listening to captains that had something to pass on, tips and tricks so to speak, and again" YES, I was paid". I was well prepared for the technical aspect of flying the 1900 before I stepped foot in it. Just like anyone else I had normal IOE experiance learning a new airframe firsthand on the line about 25 hrs with my IOE capt. I was no different. Took me about 150 hrs to become comfortable with it, and I know I can still learn more like all of us should be doing our whole career, I earned my job by working hard, getting some letters of recomendation from line captains I flew with. When I finished my 250 I recieved permanent hire up to my number coming up on furlough. I stand by my decision to go this route, it does work very well for those that take it seriously for what it is. It has never been about buying a job, that has been a BS rumor floating around for years as a way to slam a school that takes a different approach to entering the 121 word. It is not the only way, and like I've said go the way that works best for you. Most people who post garbage, started out by going straight into the 121 world during the boom with 5-700hours, and passed 121 training, and hit OE. How do they believe they are somehow safer or more deserving to be here. I went through a training course and type, to the same standards as them, only differance is I paid for it, why should that concern them, its my money that I worked for. Im just sick and tired of guys that were 500 hr wonders slamming a group of pilots that they really know absolutly nothing about, because they felt entitled to jump right into a barbie jet. Ill stand up to them every time. It is what it is. I do not believe we are a detriment to the industry and Ill tell you why. We have a decent, contract for 1900 drivers, and it includes the amount of flying that belongs to the permanent hire guys, so no one is stealing flying. Based on the idiots talking garbage about how 3M is a ( Evil airline with evil pilots out to hurt people), Im guessing none of you want to work for the evil airline anyway. People need to grow up, fix their own house first, stop having this I'M entitled attitude, and realize that the industrys hiring practices are changing, lots of pilots are operating 121 with lo times, even guys that didnt come here. Im always amazed that 3M pilots, keep their poise and bearing even in the face of the few idiots out to bash us. Im not angry with anyone, I am simply never going to back down, GIA is here, its strong and wont be going anywhere. Again, until they are ready for the next level, most guys are here for awhile, because we have one of the better 1900 drvr contracts on the market. And really, the flying to the Bahamas and the Keys is pretty nice flying.
Sprinkling sugar on it and making up a bunch of euphemisms (i.e. I'm sure Eastern scabs used the very words you use; "viable alternative", "a different approach"
) For whatever reason, it sounds like you're in complete denial and trying to spin and rationalize away your guilt. All of your fluff aside; GIA charges pilots to sit in a seat that is normally occupied by a paid professional. This lowers the bar and is insidious to our profession. If you can't understand why, perhaps you need to some deep inner reflection. The only words being twisted are the words you tell yourself. There stands your burn-out.
03-04-2009, 03:39 PM
#159
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Originally Posted by wheresmyplane
I agree, not to say that anyone from those schools is less of a pilot at all, but there is some great experience in doing it the FBO way. It's not a cookie cutteer mentality, and when you instruct for awhile, you learn more than how to do an even better lazy 8 or stall. You acquire better communication skills (something I've heard airlines like), among other things. You run into things in those hours that you are less likely to see in a more sterilized environment.
Incidentally, SAAB, I've been to each of the places you mentioned both as an instructor and as a student, and they make for great memories. Especially trying to get 8QZ to climb out of Butter Valley on a hot day!
Incidentally, SAAB, I've been to each of the places you mentioned both as an instructor and as a student, and they make for great memories. Especially trying to get 8QZ to climb out of Butter Valley on a hot day!
03-04-2009, 03:52 PM
#160
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
Originally Posted by SAABaroowski
tiny runways (Buttervalley)
My second day of IOE I got to do 33R at BOS (2557'x100') with the check airman sitting on my right and 8 people behind me, with winds gusting 33. Don't float!
But, I don't really credit my flight school much for feeling comfortable doing that; I credit XJT for a lot of the great experience I picked up there. Some people think RJ pilots are button-pushing zombies, and that's just not true.Good post, by the way.
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