For someone who doesn't like having their career progression criticized....

You sure know how to dish it out.

I'll ask you a straight question, be honest, I'm not trying to attack you.

By participating in GIA program, did they (GIA) sell you experience in the right seat of a B1900 under 121 operations?
And if so, do you agree, today, that programs like these are a detriment to this industry?

 

Here is the way I see it.


The type of Airline Pilots that I have a lot of confidence in are the types of guys that used to hang around airports at the age of 10 worked at the airports at the age of 15. I used to work for an Aeriel Banner company out of (BLM) as a kid, it was great my Dad dropped me off bright and early Saturday's and Sunday's and I worked my A$$ off setting up the banners and rolling them up etc. I did this for a few reasons, most importantly I was fascinated by airplanes and loved the airport. I worked for $10/hr towards flight training and worked my tail off to pay for training and soloed right after my 16th birthday. I think I am somewhat of an airplane geek, I always look up when I hear and airplane and envy the 152 flying overhead in the summers. Some of the best sticks I have flown with have multitude of experiences from gliders, to Stearman's,Cubs etc..... These guys grew up admiring aviation and airplanes and it only seemed natural to become an airline pilot. Hell..... you would think being I soloed at the age of 16 I would be a CA by 23 yet here I am 28 and a regional F/O. I can't say I wouldn't like being a CA now, but I wouldn't have traded the $250 hamburgers with good friends, or trips down to Bader field in Atlantic City, or teaching someone how to fly a 172. It was all life experience and really taught me how to fly an airplane......... some airplanes are heavier and have different tendencies but an airplane is an airplane is an airplane. (Some of these guys can't land an airplane in a 10kt crosswind!!!)

Now, you take the guys who are in their second career and never really thought about aviation until they see some ad online, or some silly commercial telling them how they can be an airline pilot is just 6 months time. Now before I get flamed I am not saying guys from ATP, or one of those factories are not good pilots, but a lot of them just rushed through it and missed out on experiences that you could only get from trying to teach someone how to land a 172, or scaring yourself silly, or do hours upon hours of spin training. The ATP mentality, as well as some other factories is DO THE FAA MINIMUM to get done as cheap and quickly as possible.............well how does that create a competent pilot? I spent $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to go out and fly around aimlessly going to grass strips (Trinca), tiny runways (Buttervalley), International airports to be overwhelmed by approach lights (Stewart, NY). My roommate at Colgan instructed at Spartan down in Tulsa and he would tell me what type of students they would turn out, he said it was unreal that they were letting these types of guys get through................THESE types of guys/gals are going to be flying people around for a 121 airline, and have never seen ACTUAL IMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been babbling for a while and I don't mean to discredit those that went from Insurance Broker to Airline Pilot in 6 months but the type of Pilot I like to fly with are the ones that have had aviation as a part of their life since they can remember, those that have some close calls in a 172 etc........

I dunno I just think as of late (past 10 years) these places pump out FAA Legal Airline Pilots, but poor aviators.......


Sorry for the rant guys,

SAAB

 

I think what this really comes down to (and take it as you may) but we like people who've had the same experience as us. That's why we justify one school versus another, one FBO versus one pilot mill, etc. To the guys going through GIA, i'm sure they talk to each other and believe that right now, it's the best thing for them. (for a multitude of reasons).

In a devil's advocate type of way, i'm sure many individuals going to GIA are thinking that there is are no hiring and no jobs right now. All the people who are on furlough will be able to get jobs when the hiring resumes, before they (current/future GIA students) do and what could they do to make themselves more marketable to future employers. And while experience is a good thing to have, i'm sure they're betting that buying cessna time isn't as good as buying Beach 1900 time.

The divide (from most of us in the industry) is, we believe the 1900 is a commuter aircraft, requiring two pilots, and if it's flying actual 121 operations, that it is unprofessional to be paying someone else for something that you should be getting paid to do.

But as my first point said, if everyone was going through a pay for job type program, then there wouldn't be a problem with it. Just like if everyone flew for the military previously, or flight instructed, or did 135 flying. We've all had different flying experiences, which have culminated in airline flying. It often seems to be the differences though that separate and push us apart.

 

SAABO, I hate spelling nazis as much as the next guy, but you need to spell Stearman correctly, if I were interviewing you and that was on your resume, I'd pitch it in the wastebasket

BTW, great post.

 

Good grief, that's what I used to make as a part time sim instuctor (Citation) Of course it was 1977 and I had to walk to work, up hill both ways

 

haha, I have the worst grammar and spelling on this board by far haha

 

In your case, the word is CHECKBOOK. Yeah yeah, I know you say you never bought a job. For not ever buying a job, you're sure spending a lot of energy in defending PFT.


Edit;

wait a minute, I thought you said that you never bought a job?

 

Did you pay for 250 hours warming the right seat of a Beech 1900 for GIA or not?

 

[QUOTE]Having learned to fly in Oklahoma I can tell you that if they did not fly in ACTUAL IMC then they must have done a lot of sitting around. Oklahoma provides PLENTY of actual IMC
I like your distinction between "pilots" and "aviators" though. There is something to be said about a difference between the two. Now whether that difference comes from being enamored with aviation from a young age or if it is just the difference in the individual philosophy is open for debate.

USMCFLYR

 

U know whats funny Tprop? In some states(ex. california) you can't even drive passengers around if you have a learners permit. That is my idea of learning how to drive. Your definition of learning involves paying to fly rightseat in a turboprop with 19 paying passengers on board. Notice the irony that you can pay to fly unwitting passengers around, but in some states you can't even have passengers in a car with you? I know we're never going to convince you that having a 20th paying passenger on board is not good for anyone, especially when there are only 19 seats in the back.

And to answer your question, I didn't pay for my groundschool or the luxury of sitting in the rightseat. They paid me bro, that's how its supposed to be...