Not exactly, XJT took concession because CAL said, "this is it, take or leave it" and so it rolled downhill to ALL employee groups.

XJT DIDN'T take a concession to secure new flying, specifically UAL's flying.

 

So the gist of things is that it's ok to bash others until your company does the same thing and it's ok to take a paycut so long as it's only lowering the bar just a little? Where's this "top 10%" number coming from? The few I've talked to over there tell me CHQ guys make more. I've never compared figures though. A college buddy and I pull home the same amount. Not including any B fund or whatever you call it.

 

I understand that. My first point was that CHQ didn't underbid XJT forcing them to bid lower thus operating at a loss. PNCL, XJT, and SKYW all offered bids that were cheaper for the initial flying. I guess because PNCL and SKYW didn't have 145 programs and CAL wanted to diversify from XJT that CHQ was their logical choice.

 

Do you know that XJT underbid ANYBODY for this UAL flying? Thats what I'm keeping my points about since my post about the "win" situation.

 

Ahh I see. Well they might not have. No I don't know. I was focusing more on the fact that, according to you guys, it's flying at a loss. Considering past contracts, ie CAL, and the alleged operating of these at the same cost it could lead to believe that UAL now has a regional flying for pennies on the dollar which isn't good for anyone else.

 

When you say "you guys", I NEVER said I knew the agreement of this UAL flying, so I don't claim to know and haven't. So I don't know what you're getting at. The DELCON CPA aircraft were break even, the pro rate aircraft, not so much. As I mentioned, I was referring to the UAL flying.

UAL may have been in a pinch and needed that feed, XJT may be making a slight profit on it, who knows? I'll revert back to what I said before, this has NO effect on XJT, it's a short term deal. It UAL comes later and offers a longer contract, well then whatever.

Like I said, I DON'T know. Maybe it's the SAME cost as when XJT did UAL flying before.

 

Wow did someone hit a nerve for you? What did you think would happen? Our management would just fold over and let people bid on ExpressJet's flying with CAL and they wouldn't reciprocate?

If our management wants to bid on everyone else's contracts, that bid on the stuff CAL had put up, at a 1% profit margin, who cares? Do you think bidding on another competitor's business doesn't result in this? I can see this cycle continue forever.

ummmmm???? You comparing the RAH 170 rates to the XJT 145 rates? I made $40K, on second year pay, on reserve, flying a 50-seater with 12 days of a month. I'm not saying that's great, but tell me where I can get that much on reserve elsewhere flying a 50-seater. Plus give me 6.5% for every 4% I put in my 401K.

 

The big picture is that unionized pilots only have marginal control of their pay. Management is the one who decides what profit margin/loss they operate at. In the case of XJT, after CAL using SKW to whipsaw us into a deal that SKW negotiated with CAL, it caused XJT to lose money and hence why all XJT employess to paycuts.

It wasn't a case of management coming to the pilots and asking for paycuts to secure the flying. It was, sign on the dotted line or lose the flying. If XJT management decides to do UAL flying at a loss, then its not the pilots fault seeing that they still have the industry leading contract despite the paycuts. Like I said, that's all the XJT pilots can control anyways, if you even want to say that they have control of their pay.

On the contrary, if XJT can make a profit and have the pilot contract they have, then it will help in the short and long term.

You have to compare apples to apples. Look at fifty seat pay for each years of service for both airlines. And then compare your total compensation (including 401k match, defined contribution plans, profit sharing, etc) divided by actual block hours flown. This will give you the true comparison between the two companies.

 

I fly the erj and that is what we compare too. While he does have a little more in match I apparently fly more hours on average and have more days off. What hits our bank account is relatively the same. Obviously we're working on getting higher pay for everything flown. My issue is that having industry leading pay with today's current standards is like saying I have the best form of cancer. Congratulations and all but what good is it really? Like tpersuit I made $40k last year which is still crap. Keeps me in the bars, a roof over my head, and clothes on my back but still crap none the less. Flying is flying and it's not owned by anyone. Don't care who it is. Our 170 US Air flying is not really ours. So when contracts become available everyone has the right to bid on them. By XJT underbidding SKYW it set the notion that "we'll do whatever it takes to keep the doors open" which isn't good. Recent proof was with the number came to CHQ with to fly new aircraft. Had XJT not taken that deal it's possible the number CAL came up with would have been higher. Now they know where to go when they need dirt cheap rates. My only hope is that XJT stays with CAL and doesn't start using these rates with others or we could all be taking a pay hit one day.

PS. I'm all for the fair tax.

 

I was only trying to say that to make a fair comparison on our crap compensation is to compare the total compensation for a given longevity and divide that by actual amount of block hours you flew that year. The XJT contract also provides for many QOL improvements that are not quantifiable.

As for the underbidding, XJT did not underbid SKW. XJT was forced to accept the CPA SKW negotiated with CAL or CAL was going to cancel the whole CPA. Anyone can make their own judgement whether that was good or not but I want to point out that was not the pilots decision. The pilots only have the slight ability to control their pay. The fact that our paycuts keeps us at the top of the industry and is a break even proposition for XJT may actually help if the management can turn this around by gaining more profitable flying with our current industry leading compensation.

PS. Its too bad more people aren't for the FairTax. It would solve many of the problems we have today.