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Originally Posted by HookEm
(Post 610505)
And what of the recent FedEx MD-11 accident?
Military flight training is recognized as the best in the world yet they still managed to make mistakes and it cost them their lives. Was their "foundation" flawed in some way? Do you have access to information, that I do not? |
Originally Posted by Dangling Unit
(Post 610566)
Isn't a checkride the same regardless of the background of the pilot?
As a flight instructor, you teach someone how to fly an airplane, and you save their butt and yours when they can't do it right. At places like gulfstream you go through the program, you fly your beech 1900 with no autopilot and raw data (which is what every single one of the FO's i have flown with emphasizes regularly) but you are never the person in charge because you are never the captain. Then you go to a regional upgrade fast and all of a sudden you are the captain. While I am thinking about it Pinnacle had that milwaukee accident where they skidded of the runway and went over a snowbank and came to rest on a taxi way. Correct me if i am wrong but the captain who then taxied the plane to the gate was also from gulfstream. |
Originally Posted by PinnacleFO
(Post 610649)
A checkride can be passed by anyone, especially if you are spoon fed everything and then take the test right after.
As a flight instructor, you teach someone how to fly an airplane, and you save their butt and yours when they can't do it right. At places like gulfstream you go through the program, you fly your beech 1900 with no autopilot and raw data (which is what every single one of the FO's i have flown with emphasizes regularly) but you are never the person in charge because you are never the captain. Then you go to a regional upgrade fast and all of a sudden you are the captain. While I am thinking about it Pinnacle had that milwaukee accident where they skidded of the runway and went over a snowbank and came to rest on a taxi way. Correct me if i am wrong but the captain who then taxied the plane to the gate was also from gulfstream. |
Originally Posted by DeadHead
(Post 610491)
I'll go out on a limb here and say that if the Captain HAD been a flight instructor with even just a few hundred hours of dual given under his belt, this crash would have never happened.
Paying for a job as a means to sidestep the pursuit of valuable experience as a professional aviator is in no way moral, legitimate, or conducive to staffing the strongest pilots in our cockpits. It's not about which experience is best, it's about not lowering the bar or looking the other way when it comes to safe, proficient flying skills strictly for a company to make more money. I'll even go out on the limb a little further, I don't think it is merely a coincidence that the above three crashes all contained Gulfstream Academy Graduates. THANK YOU! I was thinking the exact same thing. To be a CFI you really must devolop situational awareness through multi tasking to survive...literally. And well...he was acting as an instructor with no experience. He was babysitting a sick FO who didnt have any real experience in one of the most sophisticated airplanes out there. The only problem is...he didnt have the instructor experience and he was just talking with her about BS. |
Originally Posted by NismoRacer
(Post 610653)
Are you kidding me. Most of the people that went to GIA got to Pinnacle with about 5 or 600 hours and had to sit right seat for 2500 hrs before they could up grade. So almost everything we learned was from the CA we flew with.
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Originally Posted by Slice
(Post 610658)
I don't care if your a more sh*t hot stick than Chuck Yeager...if you bought your job you'll get no respect from me.:cool:
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Look people...it is not so much GIA...it is the mentality of all these pilots. Nobody respects the CFI experience. Everyone wants to hop right into a jet as soon as they can. There is sooooo much to learn from 1000+ hours of CFIing and GA flying. I always tell pilots they should instruct to their 135 mins and since they are so close may as well go to the ATP mins. You will be much more attractive to higher paying jobs and you dont have to play the regional airline BS game.
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Originally Posted by Slice
(Post 610658)
I don't care if your a more sh*t hot stick than Chuck Yeager...if you bought your job you'll get no respect from me.:cool:
Folks, I'm not a fan of Gulfstream either but I believe the focus of blame on this particular accident rests squarely on the FAA, individual airlines and the insurance companies. Regardless of background, ALL OF THEM think it's ok, or a good idea, for someone with so little experience to be in the cockpit with so many lives in their hands. It's time to pick a fight with them before more people get killed. |
Originally Posted by rightside02
(Post 610564)
I agree with this to some degree. But what does gulfstream have to do with the rules that were broken.( sterile cockpit rule< switching seats , not following procedures etc )These are decisions that are made on a day to day basis.
I think this whole accident is more of a discipline issue that a "where did he learned to shoot a ILS issue". lack of professionalism is a daily decision nothing to do with what you learned at Gulfstream or at your mom and pa's FBO years ago. |
Originally Posted by Dangling Unit
(Post 610566)
Isn't a checkride the same regardless of the background of the pilot?
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