All opinions aside, I was wondering from the guys that went to GIA what it was like. What is so different from the training a lot of other people experienced? For example I went to ERAU but had already gotten most of my training off campus before I attended. I went through all the 141 and part 61 stuff just like the FAA requires. I did upset flight recovery and an advanced multi/instrument course at Riddle to fullfil my on campus reqs. Do you not have to instruct with the GIA training. Sorry for the confusion but I never looked into what exactly GIA is. I'm one of the guys in some killer debt having gotten an A&P as well as the CFI. When I was going through school I didn't really think there were other options out there. I just wanted to get the most out of my training and experience the most I could before I was at the controls of something that carries peoples moms, dads, sister, Gmas etc........ I couldn't just force myself to hop in the seat and pretend I knew what I was doing. I think the best part of my pre 121 career was instructing. I was able to scare the crap out of myself many times and really feel what my limitations were so that I never took aviation for granted. Flying isn't very forgiving and you only got one shot at a lot of things. There is no freeze or restart button if you know what I mean.

classic, I love it!

I did not go to GIA or any pilot puppy mill for that matter. Here's how GIA works:

You have to have a commercial with multi-engine, instrument rating as a minimum. You pay Gulfstream somewhere in the neighborhood of $30,000 to go to Beech 1900 training (it costs GIA about $10,000-$12,000 to actually train you). After you pass training, you fly as a first officer in the Beech 1900 (Continental Connection) for 250 hours. You make minimum wage per flight hour with no per diem or benefits while you are flying. After the 250 hours, Pinnacle used to give preferential interviews where the majority of GIA pilots went. GIA practically held your hand through the interview process. The ones that didn't make it could pay GIA around $11,000 for another 250 hours or just walk away. I am not sure how it works now. I think Pinnacle stopped the preferential interviews after the "410 dudes".

Ah, I see. So really these pilots could have gotten great training before and even done some significant instructing before enrolling. I was thinking the university did all your training and you went straight into a 121 operation with the bare minimum flight time and no extra flying around by yourself to experiment. Personally I think spending the 30K on renting a small twin or single engine to go out with your friends and fellow pilots to get a real feel for what airplanes do in all scenarios to sort of get that stick and rudder/ hard IMC no autopilot experience would be way more worth the money. Yeah, it might not be the "jet time" that the airlines want to see but in the long run it would really make your skills a lot sharper.
When I was upgrading to a higher level of instructor at the college I taught at, they required me to take the 172's set up for spins and work on teaching spins alone without another upgrade instructor there to guide you. There really is nothing like the feeling of doing that the first time all alone with no one there to take over if you scew up. Of course if you are high enough those planes are almost impossible to get into anything unrecoverable but it still builds a certain level of character. That way when you are with the student you are a lot more compitent and you know your limits.

I had a fellow newhire in indoc class that had never flown alone except for her required mins during training. Once you get to the 121 stage of things you will probably never fly alone again. And alone I don't mean all by yourself but rather the sole PIC. So your friends could be with you. That's scary knowing she would one day become the PIC of a jet full of PAX having never had to experience a situation where she had to make all the right decisions by herself. I have tons of flying around as an instructor and the thought of becoming captain one day is still a little overwelming. I'll do it when I'm good and ready. Not just because I can.

So now understanding this GIA and if I had the money to do it, yeah it could be benificial if you are good and ready to set out and be a professional pilot. Because those days of the real fundamentals of flying are over once you land that job as an airline pilot. Sure you learn lots of stuff but stalls and stall recovery and simple airmanship start to slowly fade as you get into larger and larger aircraft that are fool proof and for the most part fly themselves. But I think it is a dum decision to use as an accelarator just to get you into a jet because you don't want to go out and experience things that will one day make you a safer pilot. That's just not good pilot decision making from the start.



That's just wrong.......:rolleyes:

Not quite. Clear away all the BS and what you still have is pilots staining the profession by buying their jobs.

You having no regrets about contributing to our profession's downfall speaks volumes. Sleep well.

Would Gulfstream have the same record if they were based in EWR? Take them out of FL and see what happens. My company has a list of airlines that we are not allowed to be booked on and Gulfstream is the only one that has stayed on that list and will not be removed. If my company's corporate safety department (union and pilots have no influence on this decision) has been able to determine that the risk is too high to book its own personal on those flights then I would not purchase a ticket on Gulfstream for me or my family.

By no means am I out of shape...I was a college athlete and I regularly lift weights, and run a few miles a week. Cut the BS.

Ok...first off the Captain missed a very important aspect to his career...being a CFI.

For those of you that say that the FO was a CFI so that doesnt make sense...here is why you are wrong.

1. In this economic climate the FO HAD to instruct that long to get a job interview. Who knows if she took the CFI experience seriously or not. There are TONS of CFIs out there that instruct but all they want to do is get the shiny jets ASAP and dont really understand what it means to be a CFI.

2. The FO spent her day off skiing, and then used airline travel as rest which we all know you cannot rest on an airliner. This shows a huge lack in good judgement. Since she wasnt "in shape" for her flight she was unable to use her CFI skills to maintain situational awareness to notice something as simple as the airspeed.

By her own words... as a 1600 hour pilot (much of that as a CFI)... she:

a) didn't know what a chip detector is... this is basic turbine engine systems knowledge

b) had hardly flown in "Actual" IMC weather.... which I had gone after aggressively through out my CFII and GA experience.

c) lacked the most fundamental level of aerodynamic knowledge by pulling up flaps during a stall/stall recovery condition thus instantly increasing the effective AOA of the wing and further deepening the stall..


So being a CFI is not a magic bullet, no more than being former Mil (though I'd argue the Mil tends to weed out week pilots better)... in the end, we have a broken system that doesn't grade skill/knowledge and we use the crutch of "FAA Certified" to mean the same thing as "pinnacle of his profession" when describing a pilots qualifications.

Keep in mind, in the same economic environment where she was being hired into the right seat of a state of the art large FAR 121 turbo prop... there were more then 3000 laid off airline pilots from the majors or smaller National airlines with 1000s of hours of FAR 121 experience... But for $22/hr.. most of them weren't even considering this company for employment.

You get what you pay for.

ohhh stud alert...:rolleyes:
but obviously u suck at skiing :)

how bout you cut the BS that just because some activity (skiing) makes YOU tired, doesn't make it so for everyone?

You can't honestly tell me that her sitting around a sausage fest crashpad in EWR sharing a room with 5 guys can be more relaxful than a day on the slopes...