I just don't think the "If he had been a CFI for XXX amount of hours, this would have never happened", argument applies. I think the a much more glaring reason is that fact that both of them were ignoring standard procedures.

A lack of respect for professionalism is shown. If one or both of them had been more vigilant, they probably wounldn't have gotten slow in the first place. Touting CFI expierence in unfounded in this case, cause after 1000+ hours of taking controls from students, the FO didn't have instinct to at least do her job of adjusting max power.

In the end, a pilot is only as good as he/she choses to be. Once you get hired, off probation and have a few checkrides under your belt, it is easy to let yourself slide skill wise. You always have to be on your toes. You always have to assume that the person you climb into the cockpit next to might be someone you have the fight for your life with. Captain or FO, there is no excuse for not maintaining proper SA at all times, espicially when it comes to airspeed in IMC on final, and in icing no less. If you aren't on the ball then, when are you really ever on the ball?

This is all Im going to say and Im done arguing. Im not saying GIA was the best place to learn, but I went there. I did it and its done. I dont consider myself the best pilot in the world, and will never be, neither is anyone else on this forum. I will let you know that I learned a lot everywhere I worked. I strive to learn something new everyday. I learn new things from every FO I fly with and take it to heart. I also have learned from all the CA I flew with as an FO. I got a lot of decision making skills from those CA because of good CRM. Other than my first try at my private I have never failed a checkride, typeride, linecheck, including my yes CFI, Check Airman and 737 type. I Love all you guyz because you are fellow pilots. Thats it.

I never have and never would make such a statement. What I've said is that it builds fundamental skills that training and right seat FO flying don't. It gives you another tool in the box to utilize. Maybe they were fatigued and maybe they slowed down but the reactions taken speak to lack of experience. I'm willing to say I've done several hundred stalls and even more spins(I always taught spin recovery over everything else) and I know what I felt like watching it happen the first time vs what it was like after having done the maneuver many times.

Personally I think those that cut the step by going to PFT courses are already showing their demeanor.

Can you provide a source for this "fact"?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I flew with Captain Clay and according to him, he went to a different puppy mill.

Actually you couldnt be more wrong about me, like I said people are haters without really knowing the facts, I try to put them out there rationally. plain and simple. I do not have to defend myself, I am fine, what I will defend is the group of hard working, professional pilots at GIA that I have worked with. Its that simple, I have nothing to prove, It worked for me, and I have no regrets, just remember 99% of people that make comments on GIA pilots are just repeating somthing they heard, I simply think that shows the lack of ability to think for themselves that most of these people have.. Like you said a duck is a duck....

Like using car parts on their aircraft or paying to fly? If you pay to fly you aren't a professional pilot. They get paid to fly not pay TO fly. You say it worked for and how's that? At what cost? A furloughed FO from a regional and sitting as a poolie in a 135 outfit is a great thing? How much money are you paying each month for the loans there while you're out of this job?

I don't think a lecture about "lack of ability to think for themselves" carries much weight from GIA guys.

Next you'll be saying that millionaires that pay to ride into space aren't really cosmonauts...

I cant speak for the captain of that flight, but I have been directly told the FO was Gulfstream, my source was there the day he came in to try to see about getting a sim instructor job, remember he was pretty messed up physically from that crash. Or let me put it more succintly, when he came in I was told that he was the FO on that flight, by an long time instuctor, that he came through GIA before. I also believe its a matter of record that the FO was the only survivor. No one ever mentioned the Capt of that flight being 3M, and I have to believe they would have since they were open about the FO. The source that told me this, seems pretty reliable. Who is Captain Clay? My recollection is the FO's name was James...

PinnacleFO stated in the original post that Comair Captain = Gulfstream. He did not mention the Comair FO. I'm asking him to support his facts.

Comair 5191 - Jeffrey Clay was the Captain, Jimmy Polehinke was the FO and only survivor.

And you are entitled to your opinions, as I am. What I mean it worked for me is I learned everything they said they would teach me, and I learned a lot from many good captains, including some who came from other outfits as street guys, the program was as advertised. If I had gone to American Eagle in 07 when they were hiring wet CMEL's, like me, I have a feeling Id still be furloughed and in a 135 pool, that argument pretty much is a wash. If the industry wasnt where it is, I wouldnt be furloughed and neither would a bunch of others, id be working on my hours to qualify for upgrade. by the way I choose to use the free time to work on ATP written, college degree, and CFI. People where you go in this industry is how you conduct yourself in adversity, and I choose to continue to achieve the different goals I set when I became a Professional Pilot...