Without reading this whole thread...

I think you may be on to something rick. This is anecdotal but take it for what you think it's worth. I had a training partner who came from Gulfstream and this person was under the impression that everyone owed them something...the training department, the instructors, the other students in the class, the hotel front desk. Never mind the fact that this person in question could not hold a heading or an altitude to save their life and would come completely unglued during any sort of emergency or abnormal situation. If I remember correctly, this person had almost 1000 hours flying the 1900 at Gulfstream. Luckily, they were washed out of training (after several chances to redeem themselves). I shudder every time I think about what it would be like to have her in the pointy end of an RJ...or a Cessna.

Now I'm sure Gulfstream is just like any other company with its good apples and bad. But if there is any sort of connection, I think it may be a combination of the type of person attracted to Gulfstream combined with a more lax training environment. After all, it's just not good business to ruin the careers of your paying customers.

Good point, if you took any pilot from the ground up and put them straight into the cockpit of an 121 airliner, that person would undoubtably be a horrible pilot.

Experience is the one thing money can't buy. The most experienced pilots I know are the ones who still feel inexperienced, because those are the pilots who are ALWAYS willing to learn.

No TPROP, this kinda sounds like you when anyone has anything negative to say about GIA. Why are you trying to convince everyone that GIA is a quality operation? If you really believe that, than ignore the haters and move on. Fact is, your not proud are you?

I have never met any GIA guys. Never even heard of GIA until mentioned on this forum. I have no axe to grind, so believe me when I tell you this. Every post you make regarding GIA sounds defensive and is heavy in rationalization. This is from an objective, outside looking in perspective.

No maybe the vibe your putting out is being percieved wrong. But as they say, if it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it's most likely a duck. If you can look in the mirror every morning, and feel fine with your experience at GIA, then great. But constantly trying to convince others of the merits of GIA in the face of critisizm, only serves your own need for affirmation. A proud person would make the argument once(maybe twice), realize the audience is unresponsive, and move on. An insecure person behaves exactly as you are, no offense intended.

Well if you paid whatever tens of thousands of dollars and were told that in 6 months you would be an airline pilot, then the onus is on the company. That thought process probably carries over to the next phase of that pilots' career. I think thats a good point but it doesn't get us anywhere.

Lawsuits would be bountiful if you paid 30-40k to be a right seat space waster and you couldn't pass the training and you were failed out. There is probably alot of hand holding going on when a "pilot trainee" at some place like GIA can't make the grade. GIA probably passes alot of folks on fear that if they don't they might sue. Just a thought.

She probably instructed that long because she HAD to, not because she cared to learn about learning the basics. Also, her problem was that she is guilty like a lot of pilots of acting as if this whole 121 and jumpseat program is a huge College Frat Party (and if you have a commercial-inst-multi ticket you're invited)...and we are all clubbin' when we arent flyin'...just because you have a day off doesnt mean you can just go out and go skiing or do other hard activities that are tough on the body. Your job is to rest and get ready for your duty period.

I'm not defending the program at Gulfstream but I think it is unfair to imply that a person who received training at Gulfstream cannot be a good safe pilot. We are the sum of many pieces. That includes training, work situations, personal attributes.

I hope that avatar is a joke...

I'd call it kind of a play on words.

In my opinion a great pilot/student/doctor/lawyer whatever can come out of a mediocre program if they apply themselves and have the inherit "it" for their occupation. I think what people are trying to say is that with a mediocre program you can also get average or below average people squeezing through. Now, with a great program those people are either made into above average or great or they are dropped and go sell insurance.

Don't be hating on insurance salesmen!:D