Originally Posted by G-Dog (Post 610572)

I know a few people at GIA and I would put my family in a plane with them flying. They are class act pilots...

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 610577)

I doubt gulfstream training had anything to do with these crashes.

But perhaps there is a certain mentality which is attracted to the GIA program? People who like shortcuts?

Originally Posted by NismoRacer (Post 610605)

This is beginning to **** me off. I went to The stream. I can tell you with KNOWLEDGE of GA that all of you that are bashing dont have. The training at GA is really good. Its better than the training that I got at my current airline. They pay much more attention to their pilots training. At my current airline the percent of GA guys that passed their initial training was 98% compared to the other people (CFIs, other non 121 ops etc.) that was 82%.

Originally Posted by BURflyer (Post 610571)

Yea an the colgan ca failed a few of them. I read that he failed his 1900 FO training and I'm pretty sure it was at Colgan. This guy came from gulfstream which last time I checked flies the 1900 which I'm assuming you have to do a full pt121 training program to qualify on, yet he still managed to fail at colgan on the SAME airplane. That's all you need to know.

Originally Posted by NismoRacer (Post 610653)

Are you kidding me. Most of the people that went to GIA got to Pinnacle with about 5 or 600 hours and had to sit right seat for 2500 hrs before they could up grade. So almost everything we learned was from the CA we flew with.

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck (Post 611492)

What he's saying is that the command ability of the individual had never really been tested until he was finally in the left seat of an RJ. A CFI learns decision making skills and when to speak up when something is going wrong. A CFI learns to grab the controls and fly the aircraft first checklist be damned. A CFI learns that in any situation HIS thought process and reactions are what counts.

The stage of CFI could also be used to weed out those who lack those abilities or for better reasons it can be used to let a pilot know when he's ready to move on. By going to GIA you're completely sidestepping those important lesson learning flights/experiences. You go from being a complacent and non-decision making student to a complacent and non-decision making FO until later when you're hired at another regional and you jump ship to be a non-decision making FO again. At no point did this second person ever have the opportunity to grow the skills to be used later on. How many times have you had a plane go into a spin working at GIA? How many times have you had the person next to you try to kill you? How many times have you had to sit down with someone and completely examine the decisions made and explain why some were good and some were bad?

Over the years I've met countless amounts of CFI's from both the civvie and mil world and I've never had a single one tell me it wasn't one of the best learning experiences of their life. By negating that to quickly get in the right seat of a "real" plane you're denying yourself what some consider the cornerstone of the professional pilot's foundation. One which can't be replaced with something else and might not be missed until it's too late.

Just my .02

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck (Post 611492)

What he's saying is that the command ability of the individual had never really been tested until he was finally in the left seat of an RJ. A CFI learns decision making skills and when to speak up when something is going wrong. A CFI learns to grab the controls and fly the aircraft first checklist be damned. A CFI learns that in any situation HIS thought process and reactions are what counts.

The stage of CFI could also be used to weed out those who lack those abilities or for better reasons it can be used to let a pilot know when he's ready to move on. By going to GIA you're completely sidestepping those important lesson learning flights/experiences. You go from being a complacent and non-decision making student to a complacent and non-decision making FO until later when you're hired at another regional and you jump ship to be a non-decision making FO again. At no point did this second person ever have the opportunity to grow the skills to be used later on. How many times have you had a plane go into a spin working at GIA? How many times have you had the person next to you try to kill you? How many times have you had to sit down with someone and completely examine the decisions made and explain why some were good and some were bad?

Over the years I've met countless amounts of CFI's from both the civvie and mil world and I've never had a single one tell me it wasn't one of the best learning experiences of their life. By negating that to quickly get in the right seat of a "real" plane you're denying yourself what some consider the cornerstone of the professional pilot's foundation. One which can't be replaced with something else and might not be missed until it's too late.

Just my .02

Originally Posted by ebl14 (Post 611573)

That CFI in the right seat should have noticed the airspeed and announced it, or put the power levers to max, or not retracted the flaps. The CFI made just as many mistakes as the Streamer. You can toot the CFI horn all day, because it makes you feel like it was the right thing for you to do, just like the gulfstreamers on here. The reality is that you had one of each, both making rookie mistakes and getting bitten for it. I think the problem lies in the attitudes many people carry with them into this profession. Rules are in place for a reason, these pilots were not in any way acting like professional aviators. Chit-chatting through IMC on an ILS is in no way professional and we see why. This happens way too often by all pilots, but much more prominatly at a regionals. Regionals with relaxed hiring standards and relaxed rule enforcement. Higher standards, justified by higher wages will allow employers to select only the most dedicated professionals as thier pilots.

One this is for sure, if you need higher pay to justify higher standards, an airline where you need to pay for a FO seat won't attract the cream of the crop.

Originally Posted by ebl14 (Post 611573)

That CFI in the right seat should have noticed the airspeed and announced it, or put the power levers to max, or not retracted the flaps. The CFI made just as many mistakes as the Streamer. You can toot the CFI horn all day, because it makes you feel like it was the right thing for you to do, just like the gulfstreamers on here. The reality is that you had one of each, both making rookie mistakes and getting bitten for it. I think the problem lies in the attitudes many people carry with them into this profession. Rules are in place for a reason, these pilots were not in any way acting like professional aviators. Chit-chatting through IMC on an ILS is in no way professional and we see why. This happens way too often by all pilots, but much more prominatly at a regionals. Regionals with relaxed hiring standards and relaxed rule enforcement. Higher standards, justified by higher wages will allow employers to select only the most dedicated professionals as thier pilots.

One this is for sure, if you need higher pay to justify higher standards, an airline where you need to pay for a FO seat won't attract the cream of the crop.