Rah 190's Confirmed For Midwest
05-22-2009 | 08:13 AM
#211
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: F/O
Again with that argument, they weren't there long enough to be able to vote on the contract. You sign the contract when you set foot in the door. You agree to everything in that contract. Sorry, the people that got there after the contract was voted on played as much of a role as the guys actually voting on it.[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying is that pilots should be able to forecast everything that management does regarding the future fleet and type of operation? That's impossible as every company is a very different company as it goes through its business cycle. Are you a perfect forecaster?
Second, I don't know of many pilots that completely read any contract, much less comprehend complex issues such as scope and whatnot when someone is first hired on to a regional. Did you completely understand every piece of contract language at your carrier upon arrival?
Come on man, pilots don't have the ability to foresee everythign that may happen and it is completely unrealistic to think they can.
Where was the midwest scope when those guys were hired....I guess they have zero room to complain because they signed the contract when they showed up to class? I don't think thats an entirely fair statement!
So what you're saying is that pilots should be able to forecast everything that management does regarding the future fleet and type of operation? That's impossible as every company is a very different company as it goes through its business cycle. Are you a perfect forecaster?
Second, I don't know of many pilots that completely read any contract, much less comprehend complex issues such as scope and whatnot when someone is first hired on to a regional. Did you completely understand every piece of contract language at your carrier upon arrival?
Come on man, pilots don't have the ability to foresee everythign that may happen and it is completely unrealistic to think they can.
Where was the midwest scope when those guys were hired....I guess they have zero room to complain because they signed the contract when they showed up to class? I don't think thats an entirely fair statement!
05-22-2009 | 09:52 AM
#212
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 193
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From: Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start.....
Okay me being a furloughed pilot I suggest this, since you feel this way, you quit your job and go find one of those jobs that others won't do and let me have your flying job then!!! Learn the facts before you open your mouth! As a furloughed first officer back to instructing with a wife and two kids I have put applications out to Best Buy, Financial agencies, and other flying gigs for a second job. Well the market is SO competitive right now with thousands of applications to sort through that the chances of ANYONE getting another job right now is slim if you're lucky! The other point is if YOUR company got an aircraft like this you wouldn't just up and quit your job would you!!?? And don't say yes because you know darn well you wouldn't! So unless you're going to actually add something intelligent to the conversation, shut the trap.
05-22-2009 | 10:03 AM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,276
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From: ERJ FO
Ok, if I hear one more REGIONAL pilot talk about how RAH is stealing flying, I'm going to go to their house and slap them. I don't care what company you're at...if you're at ANY regional....YOU STOLE SOMEONE'S FLYING. Just because you've been doing it for longer doesn't make it right.
And RAH didn't slide into MidWest and rip up their contract. MidWest management screwed MidWest pilots...not RAH pilots.
And RAH didn't slide into MidWest and rip up their contract. MidWest management screwed MidWest pilots...not RAH pilots.
05-22-2009 | 10:07 AM
#214
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Joined: Oct 2006
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I've been in this industry now for 3 years. Been reading the boards quite a bit in that time as well. To be honest.., based on what I've seen, and read, and heard, I feel that this "solidarity" so many speak of is a myth, or at the very least a reality I will never see in this industry based on the apathy and indifference that exist. That and the "I got mine crowd" seem to me to be the biggest impediment to bringing any solidarity to this profession. We need a fundemental paradigm shift before any EFFECTIVE change will occur. Not likely to occur in my opinion. At this point in my career, my priorities are my health, my family, my career.
At no point in any of these threads have I felt the true spirit of solidarity that compelled me to change my actions with regards to doing my job or make a self sacrifice (read: fall on my own sword) so that those higher in seniority could continue to enjoy job security, prestige and, great pay. Sorry that's how I see it.
With regard to the E-190, do you seriously think that ANY pilot who cares about their family, their livelyhood, and being out on the street in THIS economy, Is gonna ACTUALLY refuse to fly it??? I don't know what world these folks live in, but I tend to focus on the real world.
Employment at the "Legacy Carriers" is becoming less and less attractive to me these days. Don't think I'm gonna be heading in that direction. Threats are a little school yard don't ya think?
Pilots don't get to choose what aircraft their airlines fly, MANAGEMENT AND THE MARKETS make those decisions. THE ONLY thing we AS pilots have control over is the speed and altitude we chose to go from A to B. Not crazy about every decision thats been made by this airline's management, but that's life in the 121 world.
If or when it comes my time to fly the E 190, don't expect me to fall on my own sword. That is unless we all collectively intend to provide us (pilots who refuse to fly it) with either the unemployment income or another job..., any takers.., didn't think so.., so much for "solidarity."
I'm gonna continue to do my job as I would expect any professional pilot to do. If it makes you all happy, when or if our union ever gets it's collective self together, we'll see about better pay. Don't hold your breath. So there it is.., do with this what you will. Don't get me wrong, I love my profession, myjob and the folks I fly with, hell I even like who I fly for (RAH).
Imagine that, a pilot who actually enjoys working for the airline he flys for, what a concept.
At no point in any of these threads have I felt the true spirit of solidarity that compelled me to change my actions with regards to doing my job or make a self sacrifice (read: fall on my own sword) so that those higher in seniority could continue to enjoy job security, prestige and, great pay. Sorry that's how I see it.
With regard to the E-190, do you seriously think that ANY pilot who cares about their family, their livelyhood, and being out on the street in THIS economy, Is gonna ACTUALLY refuse to fly it??? I don't know what world these folks live in, but I tend to focus on the real world.
Employment at the "Legacy Carriers" is becoming less and less attractive to me these days. Don't think I'm gonna be heading in that direction. Threats are a little school yard don't ya think?
Pilots don't get to choose what aircraft their airlines fly, MANAGEMENT AND THE MARKETS make those decisions. THE ONLY thing we AS pilots have control over is the speed and altitude we chose to go from A to B. Not crazy about every decision thats been made by this airline's management, but that's life in the 121 world.
If or when it comes my time to fly the E 190, don't expect me to fall on my own sword. That is unless we all collectively intend to provide us (pilots who refuse to fly it) with either the unemployment income or another job..., any takers.., didn't think so.., so much for "solidarity."
I'm gonna continue to do my job as I would expect any professional pilot to do. If it makes you all happy, when or if our union ever gets it's collective self together, we'll see about better pay. Don't hold your breath. So there it is.., do with this what you will. Don't get me wrong, I love my profession, myjob and the folks I fly with, hell I even like who I fly for (RAH).
Imagine that, a pilot who actually enjoys working for the airline he flys for, what a concept.
05-22-2009 | 10:26 AM
#215
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
From: Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start.....
There.... new person inoculated.
Last edited by benairguitar23; 05-22-2009 at 10:40 AM.
05-22-2009 | 10:28 AM
#216
Underboob King
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,412
Likes: 0
From: Guppy Commander
I've been in this industry now for 3 years. Been reading the boards quite a bit in that time as well. To be honest.., based on what I've seen, and read, and heard, I feel that this "solidarity" so many speak of is a myth, or at the very least a reality I will never see in this industry based on the apathy and indifference that exist. That and the "I got mine crowd" seem to me to be the biggest impediment to bringing any solidarity to this profession. We need a fundemental paradigm shift before any EFFECTIVE change will occur. Not likely to occur in my opinion. At this point in my career, my priorities are my health, my family, my career.
At no point in any of these threads have I felt the true spirit of solidarity that compelled me to change my actions with regards to doing my job or make a self sacrifice (read: fall on my own sword) so that those higher in seniority could continue to enjoy job security, prestige and, great pay. Sorry that's how I see it.
With regard to the E-190, do you seriously think that ANY pilot who cares about their family, their livelyhood, and being out on the street in THIS economy, Is gonna ACTUALLY refuse to fly it??? I don't know what world these folks live in, but I tend to focus on the real world.
Employment at the "Legacy Carriers" is becoming less and less attractive to me these days. Don't think I'm gonna be heading in that direction. Threats are a little school yard don't ya think?
Pilots don't get to choose what aircraft their airlines fly, MANAGEMENT AND THE MARKETS make those decisions. THE ONLY thing we AS pilots have control over is the speed and altitude we chose to go from A to B. Not crazy about every decision thats been made by this airline's management, but that's life in the 121 world.
If or when it comes my time to fly the E 190, don't expect me to fall on my own sword. That is unless we all collectively intend to provide us (pilots who refuse to fly it) with either the unemployment income or another job..., any takers.., didn't think so.., so much for "solidarity."
I'm gonna continue to do my job as I would expect any professional pilot to do. If it makes you all happy, when or if our union ever gets it's collective self together, we'll see about better pay. Don't hold your breath. So there it is.., do with this what you will. Don't get me wrong, I love my profession, myjob and the folks I fly with, hell I even like who I fly for (RAH).
Imagine that, a pilot who actually enjoys working for the airline he flys for, what a concept.
At no point in any of these threads have I felt the true spirit of solidarity that compelled me to change my actions with regards to doing my job or make a self sacrifice (read: fall on my own sword) so that those higher in seniority could continue to enjoy job security, prestige and, great pay. Sorry that's how I see it.
With regard to the E-190, do you seriously think that ANY pilot who cares about their family, their livelyhood, and being out on the street in THIS economy, Is gonna ACTUALLY refuse to fly it??? I don't know what world these folks live in, but I tend to focus on the real world.
Employment at the "Legacy Carriers" is becoming less and less attractive to me these days. Don't think I'm gonna be heading in that direction. Threats are a little school yard don't ya think?
Pilots don't get to choose what aircraft their airlines fly, MANAGEMENT AND THE MARKETS make those decisions. THE ONLY thing we AS pilots have control over is the speed and altitude we chose to go from A to B. Not crazy about every decision thats been made by this airline's management, but that's life in the 121 world.
If or when it comes my time to fly the E 190, don't expect me to fall on my own sword. That is unless we all collectively intend to provide us (pilots who refuse to fly it) with either the unemployment income or another job..., any takers.., didn't think so.., so much for "solidarity."
I'm gonna continue to do my job as I would expect any professional pilot to do. If it makes you all happy, when or if our union ever gets it's collective self together, we'll see about better pay. Don't hold your breath. So there it is.., do with this what you will. Don't get me wrong, I love my profession, myjob and the folks I fly with, hell I even like who I fly for (RAH).
Imagine that, a pilot who actually enjoys working for the airline he flys for, what a concept.
Dont settle people, we are the only ones that can fight to make this a decent industry in the future. We are our own worst enemy and need a real awakening.
(OFF THE SOAP BOX)
Carry on
05-22-2009 | 10:33 AM
#217
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
From: Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start.....
Guess I need to fix this one as well....If you are even going to THINK about using this argument you better apply your response to Skywest, Mesaba, Colgan, ASA, Comair, Mesa (Gojet), Horizon, Pinnacle etc.!!!!!!! All of these airlines fly OVER 50 seat aircraft as well so don't even think about putting the only blame on RAH!!!!!!
05-22-2009 | 11:51 AM
#218
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 0
Guess I need to fix this one as well....If you are even going to THINK about using this argument you better apply your response to Skywest, Mesaba, Colgan, ASA, Comair, Mesa (Gojet), Horizon, Pinnacle etc.!!!!!!! All of these airlines fly OVER 50 seat aircraft as well so don't even think about putting the only blame on RAH!!!!!!
Ummm, Horizon actually pay's above most if not all regionals. Still room for improvement but better than the one's you listed.
05-22-2009 | 11:52 AM
#219
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
What is the airplane your girlfriend or something. Did I say she was ugly and you had to respond by giving me examples of other ugly girls. ***, I think you get the point and another post directly below the one you reponded to states that regional airlines shouldn't be flying anything over 50 seats period. Sorry I insulted your airplane.
05-22-2009 | 11:57 AM
#220
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Guess I need to fix this one as well....If you are even going to THINK about using this argument you better apply your response to Skywest, Mesaba, Colgan, ASA, Comair, Mesa (Gojet), Horizon, Pinnacle etc.!!!!!!! All of these airlines fly OVER 50 seat aircraft as well so don't even think about putting the only blame on RAH!!!!!!
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