I think it all comes down to the "apprentice" mentality. New hires at any airline are considered probationary "apprentices". No union protection, crappy wages AND the joy of being on reserve.

That attitude is what needs to go overboard, if you ask me.

 

If an FO is expected to be hired with the credentials and skills of being a captain then they need to be paid and treated as one.

Skyhgih

 

Yea but we all know that the free market price is way less. The only thing that has slowed the decline of pilots wages are the unions and seniority system. Take that away and let the free market dictate wages and 737 captains will top out at 35K per year.

As pilots it is in our best interest to strangle the free market.

Skyhigh

 

then why is ALPA around? If thats all they do then I can get a bunch of drunk pilots together and help give out some stupid advise.

 

If GM were to lock out or outsource one UAW local, every other UAW worker would walk off and GM would grind to a halt within hours.

If Delta outsources flying or shuts down one regional, the other ones will line up to pick the meat off the bones.

Compared to real unions, ALPA is all bark and no bite.

 

ALPA or UAW, doesn't matter. Any union is only as strong as its members. If the members of ALPA choose to "pick the meat off the bones", is that an ALPA, problem, or a membership problem?

It is, by the way, a choice.

 

Crossing a picket line is an individual choice. One that ALPA condemns.

Flying a furloughed pilot's aircraft is a collective choice, one that ALPA seems to have no opinion on.

Delta can take aircraft from Comair (an ALPA carrier), give them to Freedom (an ALPA carrier), then years later give them back to Comair (still ALPA) then 2 weeks later give them to Pinnacle (another ALPA carrier), then 4 months later to Mesaba (another ALPA carrier) and then ASA (you guessed it - another ALPA carrier).

It would be unimaginable for GM to lay off one group of UAW guys and then bring in a different group of UAW guys to fill the job. Is that because the workers all individually decide to do the right thing, or because the UAW decides for them?

 

Where you are wrong is that almost every single one of those regional pilots took their job knowing what the pay, benefits, and QOL would be. If they misjudged their willingness to do the job for that pay, the correct answer is to quit. In all actuality, until pilots stop lining up for the jobs, the airline does not have to raise wages.

Supply and demand.

You can say that the union can strike, but there are plenty of other airlines that will suck up the business. Much like the UAW companies are seeing, there is non-union and other competition out there that can fill the void if a union company prices itself out of the market. In the airlines' cases, the unions are not one major union but a fragmented group of unions, so even if most of the airlines are unionized, they are not jointly unionized, so the market forces do not allow for any one company's union to actually do much in changing wages/benefits. Even if a specific union did somehow get its companies rates raised significantly above others, the market will dictate the going rate for a plane ticket. If the company cannot pay the wages and still sell a ticket for the same price, those newly higher paid employees will be out of work before long.

When the puppy mills dry up and the seats start not getting filled by guys because they are fed up with it, then things will change. In the short term, that is a tough pill to swallow when you have a mortgage, 2 kids, wife, etc.

One alternative did come to mind writing this. A company could pay higher wages and somehow charge more for their tickets if somehow the industry was able to convince the flying public that their airline is somehow better or their service is somehow better. I don't really see that as an option right now since the airport experience is miserable no matter how nice the crew of your airplane is, but who knows. Southwest has been able to accomplish some form of this in some way up to now.

Good luck. If it makes you feel any better, the state of the field has kept my application and experience out of the running because I am not willing to work those hours and QOL for those wages. Mainline or regional. I'm keeping an eye on it though. Maybe if enough people like me keep doing something else until it gets better, it will actually get better.

 

Last week, Skyhigh said it would be 60k. The free market must have taken a severe turn for the worse.

In any event, I'm sure ALPA and the other unions are grateful for his ringing endorsement.

 

i'm with milky, my voice says i'm not willing to work for their price. If the price goes up, i'd consider it, but as of now...i'm out.