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RAH 190's Base and Pay Memo

Old 06-01-2009, 11:20 PM
  #21  
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The saddest commentary in this thread is that an RAH pilot would intentionally put his own brothers and sisters in harms way and put this memo out for "scab fodder". The injustices and cannibalism of this industry will continue until every regional pilot commands the historic respect of being an aviator. Posting such things are only meant to antagonize the bottom feeders of the industry and worst yet pour salt in the wounds of every Midwest pilot.

The next saddest commentary goes to the flame chasers which make their "scab comments" before a single 190 or assigned pilot has shown up. This base is going to happen with or without someone bidding for it. Do you really think RAH Management cares if they move the bottom guys on the seniority list or the top 10 FO's or Captains to MKE. The name callers are leading the spiral to the bottom. They are far worse than even a true scab (which the RAH guys are not). A scab only ruins jobs for a few, but these bottom feeders are contributing to the demise of generations of pilots to come.

The challenge for our collective futures is to support the hundreds of RAH pilots who stand tall and do not bid for MKE. Nearly the entire RAH pilot group vehemently opposes the introduction of the 190's and particularly at Midwest. For those that do bid for MKE, they know the ridicule they will face from their own pilot group, much less "Can you imagine riding the employee shuttle in an RAH uniform in Milwaukee after the 190's arrive?" if you actually bid for one of these slots.

Just once it would be great to see the patrons of this site come together to support ANY pilot group who is being forced into an untenable situation which contributes to the detriment of the industry because of their management. This is one of those opportunities.

However, more than that -- I would love to see the RAH mole posting internal memos be identified and admonished by the RAH pilot group (and everyone on this site). This future of this profession depends on such pond scum being relegated to fly for Grand China Express as their is no room in this country for them.

Grow up guys and gals -- come together and support the VAST majority of RAH pilots who will stand tall and not bid.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:34 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Purpleanga View Post
That's a pretty messed up thing to say, especially since the Midwest guys on the street are powerless with families and kids. Shows how much you know or care to know. Don't worry major and regional pilots will use their imagination to label what RAH will be doing.
No not really. It was a point that if he's powerless to do anything how can he expect something from us? When the opportunity arises for us to get better pay or alter the conditions we will. Till then I see no reason why we should be expected to walk off the job and get fired over this when no action, besides complaining here endlessly, is the only one taken on his part. People have the option to be supportive and help work towards a solution or they can be petty. No amount of name calling or derogatory statements made to another pilot group for their management's decisions is going to help fix anything. With so many insults from him it's hard to find remorse.

I feel for those pilots at Midwest I really do. It's a crying shame what's become of their airline and even more so of what effects it must have on their families and lives. I wish them the best and hope that when hiring resumes they'll be picked up by other major carriers. However as far as 320ToBearz goes with his non-stop insults, name calling, and general immaturity of his posts if he's on the street he can stay there. People keep debating what the meaning of professionalism is and it should include common courtesy to fellow aviators. Having ill feelings for someone can still be expressed in a mature manner. During the past year of debates for the presidency(one of the most heated ever) did you see any of them saying "you suck" to one another? Regardless of whatever circumstances are responsible I'm almost glad that someone of that caliber is not involved in my profession. The average professionalism just bumped up a little. The fact that he's from Midwest plays absolutely no role in my opinion either, "matter of factly" I feel he sours their stellar reputation. He could be a 135 freight guy in a caravan but one way or another if he's out I hope he stays there.

Last edited by ToiletDuck; 06-01-2009 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:08 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ToiletDuck View Post
No not really. It was a point that if he's powerless to do anything how can he expect something from us? When the opportunity arises for us to get better pay or alter the conditions we will. Till then I see no reason why we should be expected to walk off the job and get fired over this when no action, besides complaining here endlessly, is the only one taken on his part. People have the option to be supportive and help work towards a solution or they can be petty. No amount of name calling or derogatory statements made to another pilot group for their management's decisions is going to help fix anything. With so many insults from him it's hard to find remorse.

I feel for those pilots at Midwest I really do. It's a crying shame what's become of their airline and even more so of what effects it must have on their families and lives. I wish them the best and hope that when hiring resumes they'll be picked up by other major carriers. However as far as 320ToBearz goes with his non-stop insults, name calling, and general immaturity of his posts if he's on the street he can stay there. People keep debating what the meaning of professionalism is and it should include common courtesy to fellow aviators. Having ill feelings for someone can still be expressed in a mature manner. During the past year of debates for the presidency(one of the most heated ever) did you see any of them saying "you suck" to one another? Regardless of whatever circumstances are responsible I'm almost glad that someone of that caliber is not involved in my profession. The average professionalism just bumped up a little. The fact that he's from Midwest plays absolutely no role in my opinion either, "matter of factly" I feel he sours their stellar reputation. He could be a 135 freight guy in a caravan but one way or another if he's out I hope he stays there.
Typical all talk and no action by ToiletDuck.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:13 AM
  #24  
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I almost hate to bring this up but I see a future where the legacies only own and fly international and all the domestic flying is handled by regional carriers under their "parent" airline banner. I think in the future we will see more of what happened to Midwest.

Pretty bleak if you ask me.
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Old 06-02-2009, 02:31 AM
  #25  
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The CHQ 2003 contract went into effect October 1st, 2003.

This was the same day the ARW 2003 concessionary contract went into effect (I believe ARW was ratified by membership shortly before the CHQ contract), and shortly after the MAG 2003 hunk-o-crap went into effect.

For the 79-99 seat airframe, the RAH captain rates are above the concessionary ARW B146 rates in year 3 longevity and beyond. I think given the climate of regional airline pilot negotiations in 2003, they did the very best they could do (and edging out the concessionary ARW rates for comparable-sized airplanes was pretty good during that time IMO).

Of course, the single FO rate regardless of airframe size leaves much to be desired and lags ARW FO rates on the CL65 and B146 by a fair margin.

Nobody said jack about ARW flying the 88-100 seat B146 for "peanuts" from 2003 to when the airplanes went away Easter 2006...but now the chorus rises when oft-hated Republic gets similar sized airplanes.

I'm not saying the pay for these kinds of airplanes shouldn't be higher, but geez people...get some perspective.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:09 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs View Post
I don't think this is meant to brag about the flying, more informational, I am not sure if he even flies for them?
"Informational" or not, posting this "sensitive" info is both insensitive and in some cases illegal. You don't see internal memos from DAL or AA on this site (bar the occasional UNION info). If it were my organization, I would have a problem with this but what do I know. If he is a furlough, makes matters even worse. No matter your stance on this issue, none can agree that company transcripts should be made public. If he is still on your seniority list, I would pull him aside and tell him to tread lightly. Many a pilot have been caught up in the legal web in the past. Remember, your're a single individual going up against what seems like a 500lb gorilla known as RAH management and from what it looks like, has extremely big pockets. Continue...

Last edited by grdprox; 06-02-2009 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:10 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
The CHQ 2003 contract went into effect October 1st, 2003.

This was the same day the ARW 2003 concessionary contract went into effect (I believe ARW was ratified by membership shortly before the CHQ contract), and shortly after the MAG 2003 hunk-o-crap went into effect.

For the 79-99 seat airframe, the RAH captain rates are above the concessionary ARW B146 rates in year 3 longevity and beyond. I think given the climate of regional airline pilot negotiations in 2003, they did the very best they could do (and edging out the concessionary ARW rates for comparable-sized airplanes was pretty good during that time IMO).

Of course, the single FO rate regardless of airframe size leaves much to be desired and lags ARW FO rates on the CL65 and B146 by a fair margin.

Nobody said jack about ARW flying the 88-100 seat B146 for "peanuts" from 2003 to when the airplanes went away Easter 2006...but now the chorus rises when oft-hated Republic gets similar sized airplanes.

I'm not saying the pay for these kinds of airplanes shouldn't be higher, but geez people...get some perspective.
Someone who actually has a brain and knows how to use it instead of just saying "They're all scabs in my book." I completely understand that your post is not your stamp of approval on the 190 situation, but it still is appreciated to read a post from someone who actually thinks before they type.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:26 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by ToiletDuck View Post
Remember it's only a scab if they cross a picket line or fly struck work. Feel free to strike anytime.
A Scab would imply that a wound is healing, or at least trying to heal.

Flying routes that were served by guys that are now furloughed isn't any better in my eyes. We might as well just call that a "Black Head" pimple.

I really feel for you guys and girls over there. You own Union rapes you and now you are left without representation. Your management has probably already had their party down in the tropics. Stick together! ALPA is advising people not to fly for GOJET. I think everyone industry wide is advising you not to accept this flying. I know the thought of refusing it seems dark, but this point in time is going to define who you guys are as a pilot group and how you are going to be seen for the rest of your career.

Good Luck! I hope it all works out.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:28 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs View Post
The F/O pay needs to come up at least $15/hr and CA's sadly are just under JetBlue, they both need to come up $$$$$$$$$, also JetBlue guys get paid %150 over 82hrs correct? Straight pay rates barely scratch the surface when it comes to W-2's, work rules etc play a huge role on income

Actually, I believe it's 150% for anything over 70 hours, not 82. This further amplifies your point.
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Old 06-02-2009, 06:46 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs View Post
so frustrating, CAL put bids out on XJT stations for ground support, so they wanted to save a buck, we got American Eagle, the competition...............how hard do you think they work to get us out on a 20 minute turn if they have one of their own 20 ft away, unreal.............
What stations did they outsource to Eagle? hahe, usually it the other way around. They have been really screwing the AA ramp and gate. They have been laying those people off to have Eagle come in and do the job for less.
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