Originally Posted by SaltyDog

BTW, what if the other pilot is your last post was willing to work for half of your current price? Leverage it is, and not for you.

Originally Posted by elcid79

RJSAviator76, Here's the thing about unions:

God forbid you have a catastrophic event in flight and the over-60 geezer in the left seat freezes or has a heart attack. So now, you manage to bring that crippled airliner back on the ground and save the day... guess what? Sorry, no bonus for you... not only do you not get a bonus, you can't even get a pay raise or upgrade to captain. Why? Ask your union.

Think Sully and his crew can get a bonus or raise from USAirways? Think again... and oh yeah, if USAirways goes under, and Sully decides to stay in the airlines in the US, he'll be an FO slinging gear for some kid in the RJ, and he'll be making 20k a year. Care to guess why? Yep, you guessed it. He can thank the union.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

Well, he might be willing to come work for half price at a flight department. But guess what... in a union shop, as a new-comer, I HAVE NO CHOICE but to work for not for half my current price, but try 90% less - courtesy of the seniority system.

I got to thinking about this whole thing when I was still a union pilot flying 737NG's. I remember another FO that took my plane is making 30% of my wage FOR THE SAME JOB... yet, at the time, he had more flight time than me, more experience, was laid off from UAL after 9/11. This guy was flying for 30% of my wage!!!! What's worse is that the union swears that that's OK.

Sorry pal, I'll take my "chances" that someone will try undercut me... their 'offer to undercut' will get some great laughs.

In any case, it could never be worse than the union undercutting.

Originally Posted by AtlCSIP

Although I do not claim to have the answers to the union question as it relates to the airline industry, I do know that my experience in business over 25 years has shown me that IN GENERAL, companies that rely on unions cripple their ability to provide exceptional products or service at a reasonable price. I make well over 4 times the amount offered to me as a first officer at a regional, and more than the highest paid captain at the same regional, all while flying piston twins at rates I negotiated with the owners and charter companies, all without any union representation. I get any day off I want, whenever I want it, for as long as I like. No, it's not paid time off, but it is MY choice. In my OPINION, if the unions were completely disbanned, the airline industry would become one where the best rise to the top and the bottom of the pile stay at the bottom complaining, just like in most other industries in the free world.

Originally Posted by ZDub

Clear as mud. It's your contention that the labor groups in the US that produce goods that in turn are a part of the GDP of this nation exist on "false pretences"? Further, you're sold on the idea that we should turn over the production of goods to third world countries where they can produce goods for a dollar a day in sweat shops? And the upside is we keep grwoing thier economies? Isn't that pretty much what we do now? I defy you to walk into Home Depot and pick out any 10 items at random. 9 out of 10, if not all 10 are manufactured overseas. And please, defend the notion that workers need to be "freed" from thier incomes.....I'm still clinging to the belief that you're joking.

Originally Posted by 1900luxuryliner

Undercutting the middle class is not an effective way to grow the economy. They are the backbone of the economy. Management, in search of short term profits, has been in a constant search for ways to undercut their labor force. This includes outsourcing. The problem is, when this is done on a large scale, the very people who purchase the products and services a company produces are sent into an economic downward spiral, and can't purchase these products and services. This only weakens the economy in the long-term, even though it may be good for a short-term boost. What says that more skilled jobs will be available, if unskilled jobs are continually eliminated? Even if a company ships all their unskilled labor overseas, it doesn't mean the number of skilled jobs will increase within that same company, and especially not by the same number that were eliminated. It just means more working-class Americans will be on the street, and not able to make any contribution to the economy. The American working class has been an essential part of our economy since the very beginnings of our country. I know many, many people who have had their jobs eliminated by outsourcing. Believe it or not, every single person has been forced into a worse job, because of outsourcing! It didn't force them to get more education, or improve their situation. It only forced them into a situation of desperation, where they had to take a job that was lower on the totem pole, in order to pay bills and feed their family. How can they afford to re-educate themselves when they are working some crap job, barely paying bills, and paying off student loans for the education that was geared toward the job that just got outsourced out from under them?

Originally Posted by LeftWing

Sometimes, people can be out of touch with reality because they're being too academic. In your case, you're not even an academic. Your views are remarkably inconsistent with the fundamentals of economics, history and ultimately, reality. And yes, I agree with the others. Your views are quite elitist.

Originally Posted by hemaybedid

This has become like discussing religion or politics. More likely influenced by the latter on your parts. On my part, I stand by my opinions based on my understanding of basic economics. And ZDUB, I'm not joking!