Airline Pilot Central Forums - ASA is furloughing... it's official

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I never really thought about how the process of the merger would go about. Good point/s.

It still seems that SkyWest would still offer at least some temporary gigs for us if they are really short. Sounds good on paper at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuraiguytn (Post 644424)

No, if you moved over to the SKW side you'll give up all rights to an ASA seniority number, it's a cost issue. You will keep DOH for benefits but that's it.

Currently I understand the pecking order for a SKW new hire class is as follows:

1. UAL furloughees
2. ASA furloughees
3. Poolies
4. Interviewees

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnotherPLT (Post 644135)

It's good to see our Union is really stepping in. (Sarcasm!)

And what are they suppose to do? Better yet what can they do? In other words, has ASA violated your contract with these furloughs?

Didn't think so..........so how can a union legally hold the company to something you never agreed too? The pilots being furloughed have no furlough protection, right? Now if ASA furloughs protected pilots and ALPA does nothing then you can repost the above and I’ll agree with you. Until then all your union can do is wish you the best.

A fitting video based on the circumstances I'm facing.........
YouTube - Office Space - Move You Downstairs

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16 (Post 644413)

You're talking scope.................I'm talking whipsaw. Did you or did you not have merger language when SKW purchased you?

We did, but it covered a purchase by another airline with the intent to merge. SKYW, Inc. did not intend to merge the airlines and altered their corporate structure to not trigger that clause in our contract.

Very few airlines have a merger clause that will force an instant merger -- XJT and RAH are the two that I think off off hand. XJT had willing management that agreed to that language, and RAH gave up a lot in their 03 contract to get the language (they have terrible workrules compared to the rest of the industry).

Quote:

Regardless of the NMB, your 07 TA was passed by the majority thus allowing SKW and ASA to remain separate. ASA's pilots aren't "solely" responsible because 65% of SKW pilots voted down ALPA thus stoping the merger from our end. In short I’m saying that we are where we are because of the shortsightedness of the majority at both airlines.

Our 07 contract (it is no longer a TA once it is ratified by the pilot group) did not cure cancer either. So I guess ASA pilots are responsible for that too?

With a more favorable NMB, one list may be possible this go around. However, everything comes at a price. What are you willing to give up to get it?

Quote:

I'll give the scope issue to you. As for the “massive concessions” part, believe what you want but they played the game and won by buying you out.

I never said that the SKYW, Inc. purchase was a bad thing for us. I think you would only have to look at Comair to see where we would have been.

However, remember it's the same people that own us that own you. Right now we're getting shafted, but for the whipsaw to continue to work, one airline can't just be taking it in the shorts forever.

Why didn't the company offer leaves and early outs before furloughing to try and mitigate the number.

Just Another Shrinking Airline

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweptback (Post 644462)

Yes, SKW went the extra mile to keep us serparate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweptback (Post 644462)

Our 07 contract (it is no longer a TA once it is ratified by the pilot group) did not cure cancer either. So I guess ASA pilots are responsible for that too?

What? You guys couldn't cure cancer? Bunch of slackers you are. :D

As for the TA, yeah I meant 07 contract…….it’s late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweptback (Post 644462)

However, remember it's the same people that own us that own you. Right now we're getting shafted, but for the whipsaw to continue to work, one airline can't just be taking it in the shorts forever.

Couldn't agree more and I tell that to every FO I fly with. Unfortunately many can't see past the nose on their face.

Good night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by surreal1221 (Post 644186)

But, we're not alone in this mess - every DCI company is getting slapped around like a little girl.

How badly is Skywest being hit compared to ASA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16 (Post 644232)

Remember UAL covers the overwhelming majority of our flying and our DAL reductions have been somewhat offset by our increases in UAL flying and Pro-rate flying.

I though the majority of your block hours came from DAL? Also, if SKW is doing pro-rate with the 120s and the CRJ200s, why are they not also trying that with the excess ASA aircraft?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16 (Post 644290)

I agree and we’ll just have to see what the future holds. Remember that once the purchase of ASA was complete they didn’t give ASA the boot in SLC for some time. Also remember that 5 of our CR9's are ATL based so in order to give ASA all the ATL CR9 flying Mgmnt would have to transfer. Unfortunately I agree with ASA pilot’s perception that they are step children so I don’t see the transfer happening.

They could transfer and ASA's contract would protect the Skywest pilots in that instance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16 (Post 644337)

But you're right, we will be whipsawed against one another but the boat sailed on merging when Jerry and friends bought you guys out of your language. Of course when the time comes ASA pilots will point their fingers at SKW pilots because we're non-union, claiming we're the reason for this cluster. Remember that our best chance at one voice died with your new TA so that means the majority at ASA are just as guilty as the majority at SKW when the battle begins.

The difference is that ASA made gains in their vote (which Skywest pilots also benefit from). Skywest pilots gained nothing in their union vote.

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Originally Posted by samuraiguytn (Post 644383)

IM about sick of ALPA. There constant taking of my money and doing what with it? Representing me? Yeah right!!! ALPA guys care about one thing....And thats ALPA guys. If a new guy has something to say thats important, they turn and say and I quote "you are new to this, You will understand when you gain some seniority."

Vote ALPA out and merge with SKW!!!

How would voting ALPA cause a merger? Even it you went independent, it would be status quo as far as merging goes. Lets think rationally before doing things that don't make sense. I know you just got really bad news so its expected. But don't go the same path that US Air east guys went when they got their bad news. If you don't like the leadership in ALPA, recall them and vote in new ones...its easier than decertifying anyways.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweptback (Post 644408)

I still don't see why ASA pilots are "equally responsible." In our 2007 contract we negotiated scope provisions that, while not one list, keep what's ours ours. The fact that no further airplanes have been transferred between the companies shows that it has worked and that management is not willing to comply with our rules about aircraft transfers.

As a side note, JA himself said that that language is the reason why they wouldn't transfer aircraft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16 (Post 644413)

You're talking scope.................I'm talking whipsaw. Did you or did you not have merger language when SKW purchased you? Regardless of the NMB, your 07 TA was passed by the majority thus allowing SKW and ASA to remain separate. ASA's pilots aren't "solely" responsible because 65% of SKW pilots voted down ALPA thus stoping the merger from our end. In short I’m saying that we are where we are because of the shortsightedness of the majority at both airlines.

I'll give the scope issue to you. As for the “massive concessions” part, believe what you want but they played the game and won by buying you out.

Lack of scope is whipsaw!!!

The ASA contract, like any contract, is a comprimise between two entities. Both entities were willing to trade certain things for others while getting something else in return. The SKW union vote was just a surrender.

well....at least we have the option of coming over to Skywest if they start hiring again before ASA recalls...that's not a bad deal....it's really the only positive thing I have to look forward to, well that and college footballl starting soon :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs (Post 644367)

classy......................

Just stating the obvious.