RAH Corporate Information to Carriers
09-12-2009 | 08:26 AM
#131
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 56
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Do you still believe the RAH contract is not being violated, or you just don't want to do anything about it. You guys keep saying this situation stinks but what can we do. Well how about the right thing. Are you guys in charge of the direction your union takes you, or are you just along for the ride.
09-12-2009 | 08:59 AM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
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I'm on the 145 and haven't touched any Midwest flying so unfortunately I haven't really looked into it. But what part of the contract is our union allowing the company to break? This is an honest question as I don't know. If it is a violation then the affected people should be grieving it. I know that there is a mass grievance in the works for the 190. But other than that I don't know.
09-12-2009 | 09:38 AM
#133
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 987
Likes: 37
Do you still believe the RAH contract is not being violated, or you just don't want to do anything about it. You guys keep saying this situation stinks but what can we do. Well how about the right thing. Are you guys in charge of the direction your union takes you, or are you just along for the ride.
09-12-2009 | 10:03 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
When it comes to Midwest, no our contract is not being violated. Republic pilots are flying Republic airplanes. That was the intent. In regard to Frontier, our contract is absolutely being vioated. Im just more surprised F9 is taking the path of no integration as well. There will be NOTHING to stop Bedford from adding the airbus to the Republic certificate a few years from now for a whipsaw scenario. This may be a short term gain for Frontier pilots, but its a potential long term disaster for all parties involved.
You Republic guys amaze me! Republic bought/merged with Midwest... you cannot call Midwest flying code-share or contract flying anymore.
from your contract ...
c. The operations of the Company and those of the other air carrier shall be kept separate unless and until the processes described in paragraph b above is completed and the seniority lists of the two pilot groups are integrated in accordance with Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions are completed. During such time of separate operations, neither aircraft nor pilots shall be interchanged without the Union’s written consent.
Midwest pilots didn't consent!
Get it?
Last edited by MD80; 09-12-2009 at 10:14 AM.
09-12-2009 | 10:18 AM
#135
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 987
Likes: 37
Im all for open discussion, but lets please keep it civil. I would just like for you to explain how this is a violation of our contract? No flying is being interchanged. RAH guys are flying RAH aircraft and YX guys are flying YX aircraft. It will continue to be that way until an integration takes place. Ive not read your contract, and I won't question that what is happening does violate it.
09-12-2009 | 10:19 AM
#136
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
When it comes to Midwest, no our contract is not being violated. Republic pilots are flying Republic airplanes. That was the intent. In regard to Frontier, our contract is absolutely being vioated. Im just more surprised F9 is taking the path of no integration as well. There will be NOTHING to stop Bedford from adding the airbus to the Republic certificate a few years from now for a whipsaw scenario. This may be a short term gain for Frontier pilots, but its a potential long term disaster for all parties involved.
Actually, it is being violated.
H.5.
c. The operations of the Company and those of the other air carrier shall be kept separate unless and until the processes described in paragraph b above is completed and the seniority lists of the two pilot groups are integrated in accordance with Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions are completed. During such time of separate operations, neither aircraft nor pilots shall be interchanged without the Union’s written consent.
What part of Midwest and RAH is separate? RAH flying a branded MIDWEST AIRLINES aircraft with RAH pilots. REALLY, SEROUISLY, is that separate or does that just benefit you right now.
Article 1. D.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier. A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing body.
In March 2009, RAH gained 50% interest in Mokulele, and increased that interest to 55% in May. Yet there appears to have been no operational integration of Republic’s and Mokulele’s operations in Hawaii. RAH increased its ownership to 89% in July, but again, there has been no operational integration implemented or announced and both the Republic pilots and the Mokulele pilots have yet to be affected by control.
What happened to the REQUIRED integration. And you guys wonder why all the RAH bashing.
Last edited by Bear392; 09-12-2009 at 10:32 AM.
09-12-2009 | 10:27 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Im all for open discussion, but lets please keep it civil. I would just like for you to explain how this is a violation of our contract? No flying is being interchanged. RAH guys are flying RAH aircraft and YX guys are flying YX aircraft. It will continue to be that way until an integration takes place. Ive not read your contract, and I won't question that what is happening does violate it.
Come on. It says ...
neither aircraft nor pilots shall be interchanged
Why are more Midwest pilots being furloughed and more Republic pilots are flying Midwest painted aircraft? I've lost all respect for you guys.
09-12-2009 | 10:59 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
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Midwest pilot contract...
B. Scope
1. All commercial flight operations (whether revenue, non-revenue, scheduled or non-scheduled) conducted by the Company will be flown by pilots whose names appear on the Midwest Airlines, Inc., Pilot System Seniority List.
2. Notwithstanding Paragraph 1 above, the Company may utilize pilots not on the Midwest Airlines, Inc., Pilot System Seniority List to perform nonrevenue flying such as aircraft delivery, ferry, and maintenance test flights.
Management has lost my respect by getting around this language with a code-share agreement. After Midwest and Republic merged the code-share argument can't be used anymore.
You want our respect... earn it!
Follow your contract
B. Scope
1. All commercial flight operations (whether revenue, non-revenue, scheduled or non-scheduled) conducted by the Company will be flown by pilots whose names appear on the Midwest Airlines, Inc., Pilot System Seniority List.
2. Notwithstanding Paragraph 1 above, the Company may utilize pilots not on the Midwest Airlines, Inc., Pilot System Seniority List to perform nonrevenue flying such as aircraft delivery, ferry, and maintenance test flights.
Management has lost my respect by getting around this language with a code-share agreement. After Midwest and Republic merged the code-share argument can't be used anymore.
You want our respect... earn it!
Follow your contract
Last edited by IC ALL; 09-12-2009 at 12:49 PM. Reason: tos
09-12-2009 | 03:36 PM
#139
Che Guevara
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Likes: 0
Wouldn't that mean that the 717s wouldn't be sent to the RAH pilots on the Republic certificate and the RAH pilots wouldn't be sent over to the Midwest cert? Aircraft nor pilots have been interchanged the way I read it. No 717s are flying with RAH pilots and no RAH aircraft are being flown by midwest pilots.
There are 5 companies to be integrated. It doesn't really seem that wild of an idea that they want to get them all lined up to do at once. I've only been around 121 for a few years but haven't most integrations taken more than 3 months? If so it seems a little unfair to say everyone is dragging their feet.
There are 5 companies to be integrated. It doesn't really seem that wild of an idea that they want to get them all lined up to do at once. I've only been around 121 for a few years but haven't most integrations taken more than 3 months? If so it seems a little unfair to say everyone is dragging their feet.
09-12-2009 | 03:56 PM
#140
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 987
Likes: 37
I see you guys quoting the contract, but ive yet to see how the RAH contract is being violated. The mokulele situation is being worked out like the rest. I fail to see what has been interchanged. The language was put there to prevent someone not on the RAH seniority list from flying RAH aircraft.
In regards to the integration, I can understand why you want it done immediately and seperately from the other companies. I also understand why our union wants it all done at the same time. They have chosen the latter and i'll support their decision. Maybe the arbitrator will force IBT's hand and you'll integrate before the others. That would be fine too. We'll see how it plays out.
In regards to the integration, I can understand why you want it done immediately and seperately from the other companies. I also understand why our union wants it all done at the same time. They have chosen the latter and i'll support their decision. Maybe the arbitrator will force IBT's hand and you'll integrate before the others. That would be fine too. We'll see how it plays out.
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