usa3000go

CWU i am with you all the way with the aviation degree and pursuing your dream. Go for It! I am to and its the best decision i have made. dont listen to sky high who is trying to discourage you just because he didn't make it in the business.

SkyHigh

To be more accurate, I was there and gave my all for slightly more than 20 years. I did my part, aviation failed me.

My aim is to provide information to those who wish to earn a real living and have things like a home, family, retirement and healthy lifestyle. Some may not realise that a degree in aviation is a wasted dead end and might just take action to save themselves.

Others don't care about that stuff and will live only for the moment. I don't wish to ruin anyone's dream. My hope it to avoid a few nightmares.

SkyHigh

sgrd0q

Sucker!

stickwiggler

Frzflyboy is correct, especially on the first post. I have seen young F.O.s show up after attending one of these fast trac programs which AFTER college they spend like another 80,000 dollars to buy there jobs. That's insane! Like FFboy said, you will never make that back. 80k for student loan as a doctor, maybe, a pilot? No way.

I started at ASA in 97 and it was the good times. Lots of hiring, 2 year to captain, get your pic time and get out. Upgraded in late 99 and decided to spend 1 yr in left seat then apply at Delta, United, etc. Then we got jets and I decided just get a little jet time as PIC and then my resume is complete.
Then three little numbers changed things forever. 9/11. Now my only option is to go spend more money on a 73 type and hope for southwest. Every good company that is hiring has a stack (and I mean a big stack) of guys like me, thousands of hours of Jet time, plenty of PIC, former military, and guess what? the phone does not ring.

Follow FFboy advice, spend as little as you can, get your time and network your butt off. it is most certainly a "who you know" game.

SkyHigh

I would jump at a chance to fly for Alaska Airlines. Few others would be able to tempt me at this point though.


SkyHigh

GauleyPilot

Sky:

Serious question. If Daddy BigBucks offered you the position of Chief Pilot on his new G550 or Soverign, with 2 weeks paid vacation an acceptable number of hard days off, medical coverage, he pays for your regular training, a salary that you approve of, and gives you wide discretion to run the av. department------Would you take it???

SkyHigh

If it was in a place where my family was happy to live I would definitely consider it with scrutiny. I had a similar job in the past flying charter and corporate jets and I have a few friends who do similar work. I called one of them last Thursday. He is still single and was preparing to leave on his second, month long trip, of the year. No matter how much I got paid that would get old fast. He does alright but doesn't earn much more than a garden variety regional captain. I have little love left for corporate style jets however I always consider most opportunities thoroughly.


SkyHigh

There is an opportunity cost for every choice in life.

flynavyj

Well, i'm a total newbie to the bunch here, and i read the first 6 pages of this post, was burned out after that, and thought i'd chime in. The post actually has a lot of good information within it, whether this information goes with what the original individual was looking for however, is a different story.

I've heard several times on here that "you didn't get into flying for this did you?" But the real issue here is that we all got into flying for different reasons. Some of course wanted to be military pilots, some fly heavy metal, some corporate, others instructors for life, and the list is nearly endless...Flying is basically what you make it, thinking that because one individual decides he cant make a "comfortable" living off 75-90k a year in comparison to another individual who has hopes of making 190-350k a year basically tries to stereotype all pilots into one mold, which given the various facets of the aviation industry is truthfully insane, as pilots don't always fit one mold.

The normal truth between all professional pilots are certain traits, however, these traits are ocassional hit and miss, and not everyone possesses the same desires. To some, a ferrari is needed, to others, an F-150, to some a piper cub, to more a lear jet (personal transport for both)...

When you notice people getting upset on the forumn, i think this has as much to do as them not "fitting" with the stereotype and being offended by it as much as it does for them being offended by the thought that they're "standard of a nice QOL" is less than someone elses, and is seen by others as insignificant.

No job has perks that are 100% appealing to the masses...To some, loading cargo at airnet while they build some jet time to get that corporate job they want is not an enjoyable time, especially when it's raining and you forgot your poncho. To others, dealing with the fat chick on the RJ who thinks your an alcoholic isn't considered enjoyable...When i was a kid, my mom did background checks for the military fliers in St. Louis' Air Guard. I used to hear about the pilots day in and day out, got to meet a lot of them, etc...would also hear of the pilots she'd interview who were both guard and UPS/FedEx or a Major, and it seemed like fun. I personally, wanted to fly fighters, realized that wasn't going to happen, so thought i'd fly airline, that still might happen. Do I need to make 150k a year to be happy? no...do i need to make a living? yes, and do i need to enjoy what i do? yes....

As far as other majors, it tends to be from my experiences that the majority of people who major in something different and try flying " on the side" tend to either ditch their flying efforts eventually, or simply fall behind or miss out on some of the more interesting things you learn in an aviation set degree field (simply my experiences). While what you major in isn't exactly the most important thing in the world (especially for an airline or any flying job) it normally isn't the most important thing in the world for the majority of jobs. Experience however is....There are certain fields however, that would enjoy to see a background and education based in their fields, engineering is normally one of these job titles requiring an engineering degree. A business degree, while very universal, isn't necessarily any better than the aviation degree, as its a very oversaturated market...next, you need an MBA to be competitive (unfortunately, everyone knows that, and everyone is getting an MBA also). I've met plenty of people with MBA's and business degrees that are both unhappy and unemployed, same for many other degree fields...a lot if luck, and in this day in age, try to find something you enjoy and do whatever you can to make money at it...if you enjoy money only...then aviation may not be the career that you choose, way to many ups and downs to be considered a stable money maker position.

SkyHigh

I think you missed something very important. Often people who are not in the industry think I am complaining about not making 300K. The reality is that pilot wages are so low that it is unlikely that you will ever earn back the cost of your training and education.

We are not debating weather you will drive a Porsche or Lexus but rather if you will be able to financially survive at all. It most likely will take you five to ten years to reach a point where you can earn as much as a teacher or mailman, and this is after you blow perhaps 120 to 180K on education and training. It goes much deeper than one being a good "fit" or not. Unless of course if you don't mind food stamps and refrigerator boxes.

SkyHigh

surreal1221

So SkyHigh. . . my training is going to cost me . . . out of my own pockets, near 18k-maybe 22k, every other cent is being paid for by yours and every other American citizen's tax dollars. . . thanks buddy. My college education is also being paid by someone else's horrible lottery / gambling habits, thanks HOPE scholarship.

You telling me I won't be able to make 15k through my life in the airline industry flying?

Here you go again. These rash generalizations that people will not be able to support themselves. EVERY person has different circumstances. Some, sure, are going to drown themselves in over 100k worth of debt. . . too damn bad. They didn't do the research, and screwed themselves. Not you, not me, only them. If they want to do the damage, then that is on their mind, not yours, or mine.

Nevertheless, thanks for your insight. Yes, some people will drown themselves in debt. . . too bad.