Basically yes. Ask the above member to also post the paragraph before that ((1) Wages), where they also wish to "benchmark" Eagle pilots to the "weighted industry average" of the competition. That will almost certainy result in an hourly rate redcution in addition to the longevity reduction already highlighted.

What a joke....I should've been a nurse like my mother told me.

Great. So I may have my 20+ year longevity reduced And THE CORRESPONDING pay rate reduced at the new longevity. Wonderful.

I agree eaglefly, I though we were strictly speaking longevity. Hourly pay will not be as big of an issue (it will most likely take a hit) but longevity will be huge. The senior guys are possibly taking a 25% pay cut. How do you force someone to flow, have your union agree to pay cuts outside of bankruptcy. Most of us that were saying vote NO on this TA did their homework, allot of guys just read the bullet points and said that will never happen. The problem is that attrition picks up at other regional that have junior pilot groups the longevity will also decrease and thus bring the senior guys even lower. Now this is MY observation. We are over staffed and continue to finish new hire training, management hasn't furlough except the last new hire class that started after we filed (sorry folks) but management knows it will have allot of these senior guys going to AA because the money difference and QOL here will take a hit and most of those guys will either retire or jump ship (we are already seeing guys retire when they lose their instructor jobs or are getting displaced from their aircraft) once the furlough risk is lower, and by furlough risk I mean a fleet plan as well as a business plan is presented and the crystal ball RVR increases to 6-6-6... Saying that we all be furlough today, ha ha

Here is the wage portion of the TA

(1) Wages
o Benchmark group: the “industry” as defined in Section 3 O. of the CBA, plus the inclusion of Skywest

o Measurement: calculate the weighted industry average pilot wage rates by seat and equipment and compare against Eagle’s wage rates (weighting will be based on aircraft count, in line with the existing IAI calculation).

o Process: Wage data may be gathered from various sources provided that data is considered reliable

Please tell me you knew this!

Yup. I've been telling everyone that we (the senior people) will almost surely be taking a 25 to 30 percent pay cut. That's how I see it playing out.

The post was for a little dramatic effect.

Based on them already seeking this and ALPA accepting it, it's only reasonable to assume that this will likely occur. The actual percentages though can't be known yet. It's possible they may modify this request, but include more reductions elsewhere, hence my 401(k) reduction consideration.

Pound for pound though, I expect AA pilots to take more of a hit then those at Eagle.

AMR To Retain Most Of Fleet In First Stage Of Chapter 11 | AVIATION WEEK


AMR To Retain Most Of Fleet In First Stage Of Chapter 11


Jan 17, 2012



By Darren Shannon

With its first major Chapter 11 deadline looming, AMR Corp. surprisingly has retained most of its leased fleet, although it signals there are more changes to come.

The Fort Worth-based carrier has 60 days from its Nov. 29 filing to issue notices to creditors that it is rejecting its leases. While the company can still address its fleet size at any time through the court-protected reorganization, this is a period usually used to offload aircraft an airline deems superfluous.

With just days left until the Jan. 27 hearing, and its own notice period ended, AMR appears to be holding on to most of its pre-Chapter 11 fleet, with its most recent rejection notice containing just 28 aircraft from the nearly 200 it has on lease.

Included in this rejection are 10 Boeing 757-200s, effectively leaving the airline with only owned 757s, seven MD-80s and a single Airbus A300, a type that has been retired from AMR’s mainline fleet. Previous rejections included 20 MD-80s, four Fokker 100s (also retired) and 31 ATR 42s from American Eagle’s fleet.

“After reviewing the terms of the leases, the debtors have determined they are of no utility or value to them,” AMR said of its latest aircraft lease rejections.

While retaining most of its MD-80 fleet is a surprise, especially as many are leased, the company’s decision to leave its sizable Embraer ERJ regional jet fleet untouched is notable because it indicates AMR may be attempting to renegotiate its payments to make a regional operation, either wholly owned or spun off as a separate entity, more cost-effective than the airline’s rivals.

Before the Chapter 11 filing, AMR had encouraged the sale of American Eagle with guarantees to cover the operation’s debt obligations. With lower obligations, the sale becomes more attractive and provides the operation with an opportunity to bid against carriers such as SkyWest for new contracts.

But AMR can still alter its fleet, and it makes specific reference to that possibility in its filing. “[I]n view of the large number of aircraft American Airlines has on order, it seeks to accelerate its fleet renewal strategy. To meet all of these goals, the debtors are analyzing the benefits of rejecting leases, selling and abandoning owned aircraft and engines, and contemplating methods for the return and surrender of rejected and abandoned aircraft and engines. As a result, the debtors will seek to retire numerous aircraft and engines from their fleet through rejection and abandonment. This motion is a step in that process,” it notes.

Hmmm so the rest of the ATR's will be gone soon. Although I believe we currently don't have any 42's left.

Yes, I believe that number accounts for all ATR's. My guess is they don't want to lose much, if any market share during the reorganization and thus, renogotiate short-term leases that allow for a replacement schedule. Of course, replaced aircraft may not be 1-for-1 or even be destined for the current American Eagle, but another carrier DBA as "American Eagle", financed by themselves. I doubt the judge will allow any new aircraft orders to be placed while AMR is in reorganization, but there is something in the wind of future feed aircraft for AMR that may have been either done prior to filing or perhaps a deal of intent through a third party-carrier, pending scope changes at AA.

My guess is actual replacement wouldn't occur until after exiting chapter 11 though.