Eagle Life
02-27-2012, 07:33 AM
#5161
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by eaglefly
Ooooh.........that's a good one.
They certainly could make room for them at the schoolhouse. Of course, I'd think being in Chapter 11, they'd have to get approval for that expenditure from the court.
At any rate, that would seem to indicate AMR would intend to operate those jets in house and then of course, they'd have to lay down major bucks for an order of airplanes to go with the sims. AA already has a fleet captain and training manager going through Airbus training in Miami, yet curiously hasn't ordered any sims for the bus as far as I heard. Now, they've ordered sims for an aircraft they have no orders for and no fleet support structure at either AA or AE ?
Hmmmm..........
They certainly could make room for them at the schoolhouse. Of course, I'd think being in Chapter 11, they'd have to get approval for that expenditure from the court.
At any rate, that would seem to indicate AMR would intend to operate those jets in house and then of course, they'd have to lay down major bucks for an order of airplanes to go with the sims. AA already has a fleet captain and training manager going through Airbus training in Miami, yet curiously hasn't ordered any sims for the bus as far as I heard. Now, they've ordered sims for an aircraft they have no orders for and no fleet support structure at either AA or AE ?
Hmmmm..........
02-27-2012, 08:09 AM
#5162
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by What
This is another reason why when you talk to some AA line pilots they wouldn't mind seeing a C scale with Eagle guys flying the aircraft, I have sat in multiple Jumpseats the last few weeks and most of those guys say merge the companies, combine the lists because they see the writing on the wall.
Originally Posted by What
They know that if they allow SCOPE out the window the will loose a lot of jobs like they have in the past 15 years. They know that allowing the code share will kill them as well. Most of the guys have less than 10 years flying under 121, by stapling the list below them they give themselves a little bit of room and with fences they won't feel a difference. Now management won't allow this because it will eliminate what you mention above. And yes I am an Eagle pilot who is in his late 20's and being stapled to the button of the AA list would be a wet dream for me, but that is not where I intended to go with this comment. I am not one that wants larger RJ at Eagle, I want the jobs at AA because someday I would like to have a mainline job. But back on subject, I believe APA has to keep their fiends close and their enemies closer and I agree with you on the whole Eagle Union willing to do whatever it has to and there is nothing the line pilots can do when the majority of us pilots are willing to just sit and ride it out. I don't know much about unions and only have a handful of years of experience in this industry but don't agree with what our union is doing.
I would put NOTHING past this little gang.
02-27-2012, 08:18 AM
#5163
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by mrmak2
I think this is entirely possible/probable, but there may also be an aspect of irrelevance here too. Based on the last correspondence from the MEC, it seems like they are being kept in the dark on alot of the strategy until the hammer comes down.
Originally Posted by memak
I think AMR realizes that they have almost all the leverage here, and by stringing us along in the dark, we are kept in line. I can almost picture the union guys begging for scraps of info while at the same time reassuring management of our willingness to give concessions. It's too bad management can't be forthrigth with it's workgroups and try to put together an amicable result to all this.
Total insanity. IMO, for all intents and purposes, you guys don't even HAVE a union anymore, just an extention/subsidiery of AMR representing you.
02-27-2012, 08:24 AM
#5164
Underpaid...
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: French-Canadian
Posts: 2,101
Originally Posted by snippercr
The last new hire class was sometimes in November so I think anyone in that class is done with the sims anyways. I agree the sims could have been better used but back then, I dont think the training department had any better clue as to what was going on than we had.
1 Week of Systems at Home
2 Weeks of system at AETC
Add in Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years
We still have new hires who haven't completed LOFT for lack of SIM
*Don't forget we sent instructors back to the line so who is going to teach all the SIM time!
02-27-2012, 08:24 AM
#5165
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Mason32
Would it surprise you to know they were ordered over six months ago, before BK, and that the paperwork is in the large stack of redacted documents?
None of the unions at mainline is aware of that AFAIK. If so, it sounds quite conspiratorial and would be an explosive bombshell if they ordered these 6 months ago and swept it under the rug at the same time they were supposedly negotiating in "good faith" with the APA. This would be of vital interst now to the APA in the 1113 process.
How about some form of proof or a link to factual (or implied) confirmation ?
Last edited by eaglefly; 02-27-2012 at 08:40 AM.
02-27-2012, 08:41 AM
#5166
Underpaid...
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: French-Canadian
Posts: 2,101
Originally Posted by eaglefly
That's total baloney on their part. If that were the case, there wouldn't be the endless string of confidentiality agreements they've been milking along for a couple of years now. The reason they have to HAVE these confidentiality agreements is AMR knows they are willing deal makers for anything AMR wants and they've been clued in. They need plausable deniability.
I've heard ALPA there gave away a lot of transfer protections for a promise of transfer to AA and did so as part of a grievance resolution. The pilots I talked to were told after the fact, had no idea and when asked about why they did this on the sly, were told they could explain as it was part of a confidentiality agreement. Thus, now Eagle pilots have lost some protections in scope for watered down promises of future AA jobs, that won't even be there. AMR wanted this for divestiture and ALPA greased the skids. Now, they may be on plan B to use Eagle to become the majority of AA domestic and ALPA will now dance to that tune with a new confidentiality agreement.
Total insanity. IMO, for all intents and purposes, you guys don't even HAVE a union anymore, just an extention/subsidiery of AMR representing you.
I've heard ALPA there gave away a lot of transfer protections for a promise of transfer to AA and did so as part of a grievance resolution. The pilots I talked to were told after the fact, had no idea and when asked about why they did this on the sly, were told they could explain as it was part of a confidentiality agreement. Thus, now Eagle pilots have lost some protections in scope for watered down promises of future AA jobs, that won't even be there. AMR wanted this for divestiture and ALPA greased the skids. Now, they may be on plan B to use Eagle to become the majority of AA domestic and ALPA will now dance to that tune with a new confidentiality agreement.
Total insanity. IMO, for all intents and purposes, you guys don't even HAVE a union anymore, just an extention/subsidiery of AMR representing you.
02-27-2012, 08:55 AM
#5167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,225
Originally Posted by Mason32
Would it surprise you to know they were ordered over six months ago, before BK, and that the paperwork is in the large stack of redacted documents?
None of the unions at mainline is aware of that AFAIK. If so, it sounds quite conspiratorial and would be an explosive bombshell if they ordered these 6 months ago and swept it under the rug at the same time they were supposedly negotiating in "good faith" with the APA. This would be of vital interst now to the APA in the 1113 process.
How about some form of proof or a link to factual (or implied) confirmation ?
I'm sure that's why ALPA and AE management where rushing the divestures TA, but since they probably noticed that AE pilot group was not very happy about it they said "screwed it let them go with us in BK, we'll fix it".
So I'm pretty sure they have done things behind the unions and then say they think about it yesterday and proposing it today.
And what if the creditors committee knew about it but they kept it in quiet too???
Who knows??? Not me for sure
I'm not surprise about anything in this company after just only a year here. Can't explain me how people made a whole career in this crappy company (AMR as a whole). And yes I'm including AA too.
02-27-2012, 09:06 AM
#5168
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by What
To the best of my knowledge for a long period of time the top guys on the American Eagle Union (ALPA) were on special assignment being paid by AMR. During this time our SCOPE was given away, allowing aircraft to be transferred without us, and a Concessionary TA was agreed by the Union to name a few things.
Is it any wonder why several of those in the senior officer positions and on the negotiating committee have been in those positions for perhaps 10 years, while Eagle pilots continue to stagger forward increasingly empty-handed ?
If you guys had something to show for it, that would be one thing, but what you DO have to show for it is apalling. Personally, I think the fix is in with that group and they're worse then the previous "Texas Mafia".
02-27-2012, 11:04 AM
#5169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
AMR's last contract offer before bankruptcy offered all subsequent a/c over 50 seats would be flown by AA pilots. This was in exchange for flying the A319s for a b-scale wage and codeshare with Alaska and JetBlue. I believe this is what AMR wants, and can get. Esp. with the scope threat in the term sheets. Gotta keep Eagle crews around or the threat is not credible. Plus, plan B may be to crush the scope clause IF they are unsuccessful with the b-scale A-319 wage and codeshare. JMHO.
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